From the creators of Love, Death & Robots comes Secret Level, an adult animated anthology series featuring original stories set within the universes of iconic video game franchises. Among the IPs confirmed to be represented, Mega Man is set to have his own dedicated episode, as revealed in the show's teaser trailer.
Secret Level, produced by Amazon MGM Studios and Blur Studio, is set to premiere December 10th on Prime Video. The first season will run for a total of 15 episodes.
Stay tuned for more updates!
A very decent series than Fully Charged... Love it or not? 😭💗
ReplyDeleteI can't wait to see that
DeleteOwowowowooowowowowo me tooo. 😭💗
DeleteNow *this* is unexpected. I don’t hate the look, though I was also fine with the first Sonic movie design, so take that as you will.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the odds this is the current form of the Mega Man movie they’ve been whispering about for the better part of a decade?
This is honestly the closest thing to the Mega Man movie, and I'll take it!
DeleteIt's great to see so much positivity about the new content! Very excited for this one 🎉
DeleteClosest thing we have to a megaman live action movie is turbo kid
DeleteI'd just freaked out bout this news! I'm totally gonna watch this analogy series! Mega Man in 2024 is my new favorite design!
ReplyDeleteHow can it be your new favorite design when you can barely see it?
DeleteI looked at the first image showing his face. Duh.
DeleteIt barely shows any of the design. Duh.
Delete*Edit: I spelled anthology wrong. I always blame my phone's autocorrect.
ReplyDeleteInteresting, excited to see how it turns out!
ReplyDeleteSame!
DeleteWally from pokemon are more relevant than Mega Man.
ReplyDeleteNo he's not.
DeleteWho…?
Delete4:51 here replying to 4:53, Wally is the second rival character from the Gen 3 Pokemon games Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald, as well as the remakes Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. In the grand scheme of the Pokemon franchise he's not very relevant. Mega Man on the other hand is still getting plenty of merch and crossovers and even just recently (Last year) broke franchise sales records with the Battle Network collection, so while new games haven't been confirmed in a long time the series is still very relevant.
Delete@11:07 thank you for the info, I haven’t played ruby and sapphire so I wasn’t familiar with the character.
DeleteYou mean Hub Hikari (now MegaMan.EXE)?
DeleteI guess this is the closest we're going to get to the live action Mega Man movie. Oh how can I be pessimistic? When it rains it pours! I'm glad Mega Man is finally getting some decent love. Usually when someone makes a video game reference, it's Sonic this and Q-Bert that.
ReplyDeleteI like good ol' Q-bert. It'd really be a trip if they added Lemmings to the line-up.
DeleteWe don’t need a live action Mega Man movie, this trend of making everything live action sucks. Animation is where it’s at for game related movies.
DeleteAnimation where they can make the character look like the actual character. And not redesign him for the umpteenth time for whatever reason.
DeleteWhy not both? "Mega Man Upon a Star 2", but Mega Man characters are animated (mainly 2D, but what Wily creates outside the game is 3D) while everything else is live action. :P
DeleteNo more live action crap, please.
DeleteBecause it would be nearly impossible to do the brand justice in live action unless you CGI it. And if your going to CGI 90% of the movie, why bother doing it in live action at all?
DeleteAs a traditional animation purist, I'd prefer that even though it takes a ton of money to either digital animation or CGI, but this for CGI doesn't look bad. Live-action is going to look off unless something to the level of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" is pulled off. Blond Rock looks weird to me, but I'm curious.
DeleteI'd argue that live action in and of itself isn't the problem, it's that the script writers and directors of live action films rarely know what to do to give video game franchises the justice they deserve, and also have a strong tendency to take heavy creative freedoms as they view it as their own original adaptation of the series rather than anything meant to be faithful to the original source material. Such individuals in general hold the viewpoint that originality is better than just portraying the same old thing fans have already seen before. I kinda see where they're coming from, but at the same time the vocal majority have made it clear that faithfulness is what they want.
DeleteAdditionally, it's always in the forefront of these creatives' minds that just appealing to the fans is only a small part of such a project. They're always looking for ways to expand out to broader audiences to increase profitability, which unfortunately results in the general themes being watered down for the sake of general appeal. Basically, everything is made "safe" to appeal to as wide of an audience as possible.
At the same time though, animation isn't immune from some of the same problems. There's been plenty of animated adaptations of game series, even Mega Man, that were controversial among fans. In my opinion, the more important thing isn't whether it's live action or not, but whether the creative heads of the project understand what fans want to see, are committed to giving it to them, and can do so competently. These days that's rather wishful thinking considering profitability is all that really matters though. Convincing project leads that faithful adaptations can sufficiently sell can be rather difficult, and that's going to be twofold worse for Mega Man specifically considering the rather lackluster sales performance of the legacy collections that aren't Battle Network.
A decent anime adaptation by Studio Trigger for the Mega Man franchise will be good. Hope it exist if Trigger wants to do more anime adaptations collaborating with Capcom and its IPs, Exoprimal maybe a better chance for a Trigger anime adaptation as well other old IPs such Darkstalkers and Power Stone first, a Trigger Mega Man anime would gain its charm to older fans as well newbies and children too who have never remembered the Mega Man franchise and other Capcom classic IPs better, this could gain a new video game for the Trigger Mega Man anime as well other new continuations such X, Legends, Star Force, and ZX.
DeleteAnon @10:16pm refresh my memory on the sales stats of the Legacy collections? I thought they all did really well, especially the first couple.
DeleteTo the OP comment, it could be done either the Sonic movie way or the Mario movie way. While id honestly prefer a traditional 2D anime look, maybe closer to the Termibator anine coming out soon, what matters in the end is the execution and the overall vision guiding the project.
Live action is not the answer, for something like Mega Man animation is always the way to go. I don't understand this modern trend of "everything has to be live action".
DeleteI'm hopeful about this project.
ReplyDeleteThough I have to say I do wish we had an animated version of Megaman that looked more like the character. I know, adaptations and all that, but I still can't help but want to see that. Here's hoping it's good.
I never understood why these studios feel the need to redesign every character instead of staying true to the source material.
DeleteIts because every "creative" has to put their stamp on it.
DeleteSame reason why they dont play games before making a movie on said game. They wanna do "their own thing".
And it rarely works.
@ Shrap, it's just annoying how the movie makers don't have any respect for the source material. I'd honestly rather have a Japanese studio make a anime over any of this live action and cgi stuff.
DeleteJapan does it best. Look at Godzilla Minus One.
DeleteGod, please make this series good, for the sake of Mega Man’s episode.
ReplyDeleteThis certainly came out of left field, but it looks intriguing, for sure! Any word on who’s tackling the episode?
ReplyDeleteYet again, they'll put Mega Man in ANYTHING but a new game.
ReplyDeleteIt’s the Capcom way, you should be used to this by now.
DeleteI'll wait and see before i make any judgements. I did like some of the episodes of Love, Death, and Robots but not all of them.
ReplyDeleteAs an aside, I can't possibly think of what they'll do with pac-man in anything that isn't animated or cgi? Most of the game choices don't have me very excited.
For the moment, this will do. I hope to see an accurate version of MegaMan in an animated film in the future, similar to the Super Mario Bros. Movie. The Astro Boy film is the closest we have gotten to that, which has good comedy and emotional tones that made the film entertaining for all ages. Capcom has plenty of great examples of how to do it right. I would love to help in the script process as I have my own film production company and read scripts quite often.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you brought up the Astro Boy movie, I had forgotten.
DeleteBeen a while since I've seen that. Might have to give it another watch.
OMG! Someone mentioned the 2009 film?! I love that adaptation! I can't stop watching it over and over again, it's just that good.
DeleteThe Atom anime series on Netflix is a great Astro Boy adaptation. Definitely worth a watch! It's called Pluto.
DeleteOh yeah, Pluto was an incredible anime adaptation. The dub is amazing!
DeleteI would love a accurate Mega Man animated film that doesn't feel the need to redesign him and all the characters. I've never seen the Astro Boy movie but I did enjoy the Mario Bros movie.
DeleteSanzigen or Trigger? It would be great choices!
Delete@3:24 pm, pretty much any Japanese studio that does quality art would be fine with me for a Mega Man anime. Though I feel like the time to do that would have been in the late 90s.
DeleteI like the design, I would have preferred something more cartoonish but that's only cause it's classic Mega Man, but I still think it's a nice design that thankfully doesn't look overly realistic or uncanny. I'm looking forward to whatever this show has in store for ol' Rock!
ReplyDeleteTangent, but I’ve heard this will have an Armored Core episode too.
ReplyDeleteIn the words of Leonardo DiCaprio, “You had my curiosity. Now you have my attention.”
Yep, this is going to suck.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, a westernized Mega Man.
DeleteOr will it?
DeleteWhy does everyone want to turn Mega Man into Mega Man X? Even fan game creators like MegaPhilX have to make things so flipping serious. The original series was never meant to be a grim-dark series! Yes, it has its dark moments like in Mega Man 8, Rockman & Forte, and Super Adventure Rockman, but for the most part, it's a lighthearted series.
ReplyDeleteHmph.
They probably should have just used Mega Man X instead if they wanted to go for gritty and serious.
DeleteX is just cooler. Always will be. We need more X!
DeleteIt's true that X is cooler, but they're all cool in their own way.
DeleteI think the more serious tone of mega man x is more appropiate for a show, specially since they can even talk more about the classic series as well as the new stuff, and maybe even hint more to the Elf Wars for mega man Zero
DeleteYeah. Classic series does have a lot of darker elements but handled in a more understated Pixar way, bar SAR, but it's not outright nihlistic like X4-onwards (bar Legends). Though perhaps it could be nice to see all of the different series covered.
DeleteI think X may be more appropriate for THIS show.
DeleteBut Classic has fantastic Saturday morning cartoon vibes that would be great for a show as well.
I still really want an X show in the style of the Rockman X3 cutscenes on PlayStation. Bring back Kotono Shibuya's music for it, too.
Delete@Anonymous August 25, 2024 at 12:55 PM
DeleteThat has been my dream of a Rockman X anime all the way back when I first played X3. To actually achieve that would be a miracle nowadays because both traditional animation, in this case hand-drawn cel(celluloid) animation has been discontinued a long time ago and that type of animation style is virtually non-existent, that is, again, these days. There are no anime studios that use that technique anymore. That's my favourite style for the whole cast due to the bulkiness of the designs. There's just something so grounded and detailed about them compared to any other style.
@12:55pm and 6:10 pm, I've been wanting a X anime to happen since the late 90s. X3 or X4 animation style would be great. Sadly it seems like 90s animation style is a lost art since a lot of modern anime goes for more simplistic art styles, I don't like how a lot of modern anime mixes in cgi.
DeleteMaybe Studio Trigger would bring a decent X anime adaptation, no...?
DeleteI'm here for it. Been waiting too long for the movie that was supposed to be made by the team behind Project Power. Hopefully, as someone said above, this sparks some excitement for MM and we get new content (Game, Movie, Show, etc.).
ReplyDeleteSparks excitement? What? There has been a ton of us who have been wanting a new game for ages. It’s Capcom that doesn’t want to make new games.
DeleteNot all fans are die hard fans. MM has a lot of casuals that keep it at the back of their mind and a lot of MegaMan-adjacent fans as well thanks to Smash Bros and other games. There are massive amounts of people that this show could get clamouring for a new game and definitely increase demand for one in the eyes of Calcom
DeleteI've noticed a lot of the die hard fans have moved on years ago because of lack of games.
DeleteI don't mind a slight re-design. Let's face it, the inspiration for Rock (mostly 1970s manga and TV shows) look kind of goofy by today's standards and won't resonate with anyone who hasn't played the original games. Rock himself has even had some re-designs throughout the years in the various games spin-offs, and nearly all of them have been fairly well-received.
ReplyDeleteI also wouldn't say this is the "most radical reinterpretation" of the character either. Yes, it's no Upon a Star, but I'd argue it's much closer than Fully Charged or Captain N Mega Man, and even in one or two ways could be more faithful than Ruby Spears.
What I care more about is the story, and still keeping the things that made it Mega Man, Mega Man. This show is clearly aimed at adults, so if they present an original storyline keeping true to the NES titles for example, I will be more than happy with it.
"won't resonate with anyone who hasn't played the original games"
DeleteI don't think that's true at all. Mega Man's design in Smash and in 11 resonated with people plenty well, and those are the first instances many people have seen the character at all. Combined with the reverence classic anime and manga have nowadays and I think this idea is completely off base.
That said, it's true the various spin-offs have introduced plenty of redesigns for the character and most have been well received, so I'm not inherently against it. That and this is its own adaptation, so I think that also affords it some wiggle room.
My only concern is that at some point if you change things too much, you can end up defeating the purpose of using an iconic character in the first place in favor of something completely original. That's something some video game adaptations have stumbled with in the past. Hopefully that won't be the case here.
Mega Mans design does not need updating to "modern standards". What kind of a crap take is this anyway? The design still holds up and is iconic, you don't mess with iconic. I hate this modern ideology that everything needs to be "changed and modernized", it needs to stop.
DeleteI didn't say his design needs updated, I said I don't mind a new take as long as it's not such a drastic departure that it's not even MM anymore. I rather see a fresh adaptation that keeps the core of what makes MM great, draws in new interest and fans, and keeps the franchise alive than something that stays 100% faithful and only appeals to the hardcore fanbase (which is a very niche one to begin with).
DeleteNearly every videogame character in existence has had re-designs done as time has progressed, and with MM, there are a ton of artists who have offered their own take for the various characters over the years. Rock went from looking like a doughy child in the 1 and 2 artwork to a more slender pre-teen with exaggerated proportions in 8, then with some modern sci-fi touches in 11 that also had him completely changing his look based on his weapon. Nobody lost their minds over any of that.
This is why Mega Man is such s broken franchise.
DeleteYou should be pleasing your core audience first and foremost. Then welcome new players to that. Not change things drastically to create a new audience that may or may not exist. Thats just stupid.
Mario is the ultimate example of of this.
I for one wont be watching. For the simple reason I dont do business with Amazon.
Saying the inspiration for Megaman looks goofy by today's standards and that the design won't resonate with anyone who hasn't played the original games seems to imply the design needs updating. Though I suppose it depends on what you consider to be the "core" of what makes it great.
DeleteThat said, yes. I agree that small tweeks and changes are fine.
"This is why Mega Man is such s broken franchise."
DeleteMM is a broken franchise because Capcom's philosophy is to license the hell out of the IP to make the most amount of money with the least amount of effort, not because some fans may have differing opinions than others.
"You should be pleasing your core audience first and foremost. Then welcome new players to that. Not change things drastically to create a new audience that may or may not exist. Thats just stupid."
If that was the case, every series other than Classic would have never existed, since nearly every one of them (save perhaps X) was a drastic change from what came before it. MM has tons of characters spanning multiple timelines and genres of games. It's been re-invented numerous times over the years, and aside from a small minority of narcissistic fans who lambaste anything other than their preconceived notion of what MM "should" be, most fans and the general public tend to enjoy it. I remember when MM11 was first teased, people on here were complaining about his running animation! Give me a break.
If I didn’t know any better, I’d say the “most radical reinterpretation” line was future-proofing for when/if the design became as scorned as the first Movie Sonic design (which it hasn’t and won’t, because dunking on Mega Man isn’t a revered internet pastime).
DeletePac-Man is a surreal choice for something like this. Mega Man is unexpected too, but it at least has a bigger history with story and actual reality-based concepts. Not to mention how frequently “AI” in some form is talked about currently, that was probably the biggest catalyst for its inclusion.
DeleteBut Pac-Man? Its popular image is absurdly abstract, the story isn’t much more than “you’re a thing that eats ghosts, maybe you have a family”… I can only imagine they wanna tell a real-life story *about* the Pac-Man game. They should’ve used Dig Dug instead!
Maybe Trigger would adopt and acquires the Mega Man franchise just like it did with Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt and Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagagn, since Capcom just never cared the franchise how treated this like a ghost very poorly.
Delete"It's been re-invented numerous times over the years"
DeleteWhich divided some fans into groups antagonistic toward each other.
"aside from a small minority of narcissistic fans who lambaste anything other than their preconceived notion of what MM "should" be,"
There's nothing narcissistic about keeping the integrity of the franchise and by extension the fans that come out of it, if anything it's selfless which is why it shouldn't be re-invented.
"most fans and the general public tend to enjoy it."
Yeah, because Star Force was so popular part 3 sold so well part 4 came out... oh wait, it didn't. Or ZX with part 3 or Legends with part 3 or Fully-Charged season 2. They do have their fans, but that statement it's objectively incorrect. And the walk-cycle complaint is perfectly valid, it doesn't bother me much, but it does look unfinished.
@11:31
DeleteI’m sorry, but that’s a *bad* take. You’re basically saying “don’t be creative, just do what makes money.” You realize the series would’ve ended at Mega Man 1 with that mindset, yes?
@Jark Spore
DeleteWrong interpretation. That's about re-inventing not continuing the story. At no point I implied to do what makes money instead I'm stating it's a fact that "most fans and the general public" don't enjoy re-inventing the franchise. Otherwise those re-inventions would still keep having entries and being just as popular as Classic. Fragmenting the audience into re-inventions it's a bad idea with some examples already provided. It's even more extreme in bigger franchises like Sonic with the thousands if not millions of back-and-forths.
@1:59
DeleteEh, feels like a distinction without difference, especially if Legends is a “reinterpretation” but X (presumably) isn’t. And your last paragraph at 11:31 is *definitely* about making money.
But otherwise, I’m just gonna have to agree to disagree. I’m always on the side of creators over rights-holders or brand image, and I’ll always rather something made passionately with no shot at success than something made to succeed with no energy behind it. Doesn’t matter if it’s Mega Man 12, Battle & Chase 2, or Mega Man Learns Ballet.
@Jark
DeleteWith those big ol' boots? Mega Man Learns Ballet might be kind of entertaining.
@Jark Spore
DeleteWrong again. The paragraph is not about just the money, it's popularity as well. Do people at large know who Volnutt is compared to Classic? Say BattleNetwork makes money, but it's still not as popular or recognized as Classic(with maybe the possible exception being Japan). People don't know who he is in comparison to Classic. How is X a re-interpretation? Sigma wants a nation/world for Reploids(in the first game that is, X4 & X5 has him wanting to destroy it), Wily just wants to conquer the world. X has a different personality compared to Classic. Zero is nothing like Protoman. Ditto for Alia and Roll. No Rush nor Beat nor Tango nor Auto nor Bass equivalent.
I'm not saying anything regarding creators or right-holders or whatever, I'm saying that shrap is right that they shouldn't re-invent the franchise and concentrate on their core audience that really should be the only audience unless you want said audience to fragment and the consequences for that are already apparent.
@10:12
DeleteI realize what you said, I just think it’s, again, a distinction without difference. Popularity = how many people know the games = how many people bought the games.
And I don’t think there’s any kind of “should” in entertainment spaces, unless, again, you’re coming at it from a business perspective. Games are art, and art is inherently subjective. And I *really* don’t know what “fragmentation” boogieman you’re on about. The only series that don’t “fragment” are series that die!
@Jark Spore
DeleteWrong about popularity, art and series. You got much to learn. Games are a commerce not art, there are no "arthouse games" unlike films.
It doesn't equal how many people bought the game.
DeleteCollins Dictionary:
popularity
in American English
(ˌpɑpjəˈlærəti)
noun
the state or quality of being popular
noun
1. the quality or fact of being popular
2. the favor of the general public or of a particular group of people
His popularity with television audiences is unrivaled
popular
(pɒpjʊləʳ)
1. adjective A2
Something that is popular is enjoyed or liked by a lot of people.
4. adjective [usually ADJECTIVE noun]
Popular ideas, feelings, or attitudes are approved of or held by most people.
The military government has been unable to win popular support.
For example, a friend is invited to play Smash, discovers the character and franchise, likes him, but only buys a couple of games or none at all due to circumstances and or resources. Years go by, yet he still recognizes and likes the character when he(the character) shows up in a game or any other format and then due to circumstances decides to buy the rest or not. He has the favor of the franchise fitting with the 2. point of the second noun definition of popularity so no.
@12:49
DeleteDoesn't stop some people from trying to make arthouse games a thing, unfortunately.
Also keep in mind, there are popular films that bombed at the box office like the original Blade Runner.
DeleteWhen it comes to games, Earthbound(except in Japan) and Okami are popular games that bombed.
Delete@Anonymous, 12:49 PM
DeleteGames are art though...
Casshern looks fine and Ninja Captor depends if you find the suits in Super Sentai/Power Rangers goofy. I don't think OP knows about Rock's inspirations.
Delete@Sprite Recreator
DeleteThey are not though. There are no "art games" festivals, there are no organizations that fund the making of "art games".
@RS Proto Man August 24, 2024 at 2:51 PM
All those games that are free on places like Steam are either school projects or for self training purposes for when the developer or developers end up creating a real game, a product so no.
Forgot to mention, that you can derived artistic value from a game(like anything), but that doesn't mean it's art even if games are made from a combination of elements that are considered so.
DeleteThank you
ReplyDeleteI'm curious if this will lead to a potential series being made. Very curious.
ReplyDeleteMost likely not.
DeleteI really like the style of how Mega Man looks so far, it's best Mega Man has ever looked in a non-anime style of artstyle imo.
ReplyDeleteI think he looks really cool - and still has his classic Mega Man vibes. also it seems he's not just gonna be a background character given the premise of the show.
it's a 15 episode series where I think each episode is focused on a specific game - but IDK how the show is gonna work, but it's made by the people who made Love Death and Robots, and I liked that.
I'm very happy and excited to see Mega Man be a feature character in something like. c:
How is it the best design when you can barely even see what it looks like?
DeleteWe can see his face and what the artstyle is like, as well as seeing his collarbone area and some details of his armor, and most of his helmet. We can also see his full body shot backlit with more details of his armor, along with his buster and overall shapes of the silhouette. With all this in mind, I gave my impression, and I really like what I'm seeing so far.
DeleteI'd like to live in a world where this episode goes viral and makes Capcom realize Mega Man is still worthy and brings him back as a major game franchise, even if it's in a new continuity
ReplyDeleteCapcom should have realized this after 11 and the collections sold well. And no, we don't need another spinoff.
DeletePointless inclusion. And couldn't be bothered to care honestly lol. Let others eat crumbs off the floor that's not a life style I want.
ReplyDeleteThis will get people interested in mega man and capcom will realize that the fans want a new mega man game, we might even get mega man 12 or mega man x9.
ReplyDeleteReally? As if it hasn't been obvious the past 6 years that people have been interested in Mega Man and have been wanting a new game.
DeleteThey said the same thing about the collections and even said sequels like MMX9 would depend on their success. Some fans probably thought that about Dive as well. Seems Capcom broke their promise, and we don't need no mobile-centered games anymore. More multi-platform games made for the big screen is what I would hope many prefer (MM11 did it well). For the most part, I only care about new games and sequels in the main timeline. I don't care about merch at all. As for a TV series, if it was styled like MM8, X4, or even X7 or X8 cutscenes, I might like that, albeit higher res and more frames per second. The core of MM is video games, and that core part of its importance seems to be missing nowadays.
Delete@ Gary, I remember that. Capcom is notorious for using collections to bait people into thinking they will get a new games if they sell well. They have unrealistic sales expectations all around and expect everything to sell AAA numbers and it's ridiculous.
DeleteBesides the fans all did their part and bought the collections and what we've only had one new game to show for it? I think the collections and 11 selling well has more than proved there is demand for new Mega Man games, the people in charge at Capcom are truly out of touch.
Besides Mega Man they have a ton of other franchises that they do nothing with that people would love to see return.
Wait a minute isn't that pretty close to the anniversary too? That's so hype.
ReplyDeleteYou are going to be severely disappointed if you have any expectations other than more merch.
DeleteThe overall tone of the show seems kinda dark and edgy. Doesn't bode well for something as light-hearted and "cute" as Mega Man. Also, he looks like Battle Angel in the trailer. Not a deal-breaking design choice (especially after Fully Charged), but if the overwhelming success of the Super Mario Bros. Movie SHOULD have taught filmmakers anything, it's that audiences respond to authenticity, not weirdo, pretentious "creative visions".
ReplyDeleteI'll probably check the Mega Man episode out, but I'm not very optimistic.
Did you just call Mega Man "light-hearted"? For real?
Delete...The original Rockman is light hearted.
DeleteIt's all of it's spin offs that are dark and edgy.
I was happy to see this announcement. As someone that enjoyed LD&R as well as StarWars Visions and generally anthology style work where different studios get to put forth creative or experimental work, I'm looking forward to the approaches taken in this series.
ReplyDeleteThough, I will say....Capcom....if there were any time to announce a game in the works, like seriously a new game... After all these collabs in all these games, after the feedback from that survey, after this animated feature...It would be a good time to do something. C'mon man....let there be a game at the end of this road please.
Honestly with all these cameos it's kinda ridiculous for them to not have something in the works by now to take advantage of the attention Mega Man is getting.
DeleteTrigger is the best hope for this beloved franchise.
DeleteNever liked Trigger's output, tbh. Of all the modern studios, I'd prefer Wit Studio although Madhouse or ufotable aren't bad. Just don't be MAPPA, please.
DeleteI like Trigger, and it'd be neat to see some one-off short of Megaman by them, but honestly I'd rather them work on something else. Trigger has a pretty frantic/extreme animation style hat I personally wouldn't want to see for a whole Megaman show or series (I'd still be hype if they did somethin). Studio Orange or Toei would be my picks for a 3d animation route, since, between Trigun Stampede and Girls Band Cry, their 3d animation has been the most fluid and clean I've seen. PA Works has been doing good work animating Sakuna of Rice and Ruin adaptation, so I'd be down for them to handle it or Studio Bones.
DeleteStill, really need a solid game to come through the pipeline sometime sooner than later.
It would be cool for a short.
DeleteAn anime would be fine.
DeleteI never pay close attention to what studio does what, more that the story is good. As long as the animation isn't too sloppy, I can forgive a lot. In this case, any battles need to be fluid and not choppy or basic, if that's the right way to put it.
The biggest concern I would have is that it doesn't break Canon. That's one thing Archie did well, it expanded the story without breaking Canon. Or if it did, it was negligible.
Take Battle Network. The anime and the games do not jive together well.
Seems like these days, anything to avoid making new games. Just random non-game stuff nowadays for the most part. It is yawn worthy, in my opinion.
ReplyDelete@ Gary, it's the Capcom way unfortunately since all they care about are AAA games now. Honestly I miss when the series was regularly getting games bitd.
DeleteExactly. I would prefer over-saturation over nothing any day.
DeleteI would also take over saturation over no Mega Man games any day, I can only play the older games so much before it's like "okay...so what's next?". I've honestly played them all to death at this point, just sucks to see my childhood series in this state.
DeleteOf course I prefer games over no games, but I also know that churning out games that don't sell well (essentially all of the early and mid 2000s sans-Battle Network) isn't a recipe for success. Just not how the real world works.
Delete"all of the early and mid 2000s"
DeleteX6 got made due to the unexpected sales of X5. It's why X6 has a higher production value.
X6 needed a little more time to cook...
DeleteI'd rather play x6 over x7 any day, but yeah I agree it really needed more development time.
DeleteX6 needed more time to hide itself while it repaired itself lol
Delete@Megatron X, X6 had some truly terrible writing. “Yes I somehow hid while being a torso and repaired myself.”
DeleteThat was a lie told by Zero. He tells Dr. Light his memories are hazy and suddenly realized he could move again. He doesn't know whether someone revived him or if it was by a recovery function although in another conversation with Dr. Light, he downright asks him if he knows anything about who saved him.
DeleteBut clearly Wily's viral self possessing the tailor-made Isoc avatar body was the one that repaired him. He even said 'now that I found you, I can capture you at anytime', or something, after you beat High max as Zero. Zero even admitted to Light in the capsule that he came to and didn't know how he was repaired, then started asking Light if he knew. I hear the 'hid myself to repair myself' bit was a translation error. Maybe he was referring to his limited auto-repair system (nano-tech), like when in X1, as Zero was dying that time, he said 'auto-repair systems can't handle the damage''.
Delete@Gary Daniel
DeleteWell... the truth is that it isn't a translation error, but rather it was worded better in Japanese:
しんぱいかけたようだな
ダメージが 完全にかいふくするまで
身をかくしていたんだ
その間に この ｢オモチャ｣ が 世間を
さわがせて しまったようだがな
さあ…かんどうのさいかいは
ここまでだ
ナイトメアをなんとかしないとほんとう
に とりかえしのつかない事になるぞ
A version with more Kanjis(I'm assuming this is because they didn't want to waste space on the disc storing the whole alphabet) and ordered(found on a site):
心配かけたようだな。ダメージが完全に回復するまで身を隠していたんだ。
その間にこの「オモチャ」が世間を騒がせてしまったようだがな。
さあ…感動の再会はここまでだ。ナイトメアを何とかしないと本当に取り返しのつかない事になる。
English version through google translate:
I'm sorry for worrying you. I've been hiding out until the damage has completely healed. In the meantime, this "toy" seems to have caused a stir in the world. Well... that's the end of our touching reunion. If we don't do something about the Nightmare, it will be truly irreparable.
The thing is that in X5 Zero blows up twice(first by Sigma grabbing him and then the fortress exploding) which should disintegrate him although an excuse could be made that very few small amounts of him were left. Zero completely died in X5 unlike in X1 because X didn't have the chance to take his control chip(backed up by the manual calling him "Revived Hunter"). Someone had to put his soul in a completely new body.
My theory is that Wily made a new body for him, purposely let him loose to see how powerful he was and lost track of him until he runs into him during High Max's defeat. However, I could see alternate explanations.
They really didn't think it through when they were writing the X6 story at Capcom, it sounds like even the script for the Japanese version isn't much better. Although I will say minus bad level design they did make Zeros new gameplay style quite fun with the faster saber combos.
DeleteYou could have stopped at "They really didn't think it through". Capcom in a nutshell.
Delete@Shrap, I know. The Capcom from the 80s and 90s is dead at this point.
DeleteHonestly in terms of story only the Zero related stuff comes off as wonky. Gate, Alia and the Irregulars' backstories ended up being very interesting. And, come on, how can you say no to X's face when he reunites with Zero?
Delete@anon September 1, 2024 at 3:14 AM
DeleteGenuinely, the level design isn't that bad either. The "blind" jump in Yammark's stage can be done with the caterpillar which the game tells you about. On the other hand, there is a moment of bad level design like the actual impossible jump for Unarmored X in one of the rooms you're sent randomly in Scaravich's stage and there are questionable moments like Secret Lab stages 1 and 2 requiring the part called Jumper. The rest of X6's problems are the enemy and object placements like the amount of Nightmare Viruses in Scaravich's stage, the Nightmare Ices that sometimes won't give you enough time to avoid them which have a random spawn time in the ladder section of Wolfang's stage and the randomly falling single ice blocks that come right after which can corner you leaving you with no choice but to lose a life and the placement of multiple Nightmare Viruses right next to Repliroids in Mijinion's sub stage.
@precursor, I think if X6 would have maybe had another year of development time to tweak the enemy, object placement and some of the questionable level design choices you mentioned it could have been a much better game than we got. It’s certainly 100 times better than X7 as it is but it really needed more time in development.
DeleteAs for saying Zero as disintegrated in X5 (X1 had a fortress, not X5). X5's final stages was just a hole in the ground where cyberspace was strong because of the crash of the colony in that spot and mixing of the virus creating the Zero virus (I heard it could also be remnants of an old Wily fortress though as well in the same spot). So the Zero body should still be what we saw after Final Sigma W's skull remnants called ?? (Wily's viral self possessing the skull motif remnants at that point seemingly sharing the Final Sigma W form (even the name indicates fusion within that body and feeling their combined rage), said 'drop dead' and killed X while Zero was pierced too. The body of Zero was left behind with the torso still intact. Maybe it disappeared later when Wily possessed the Isoc body and collected him then fixed him up (the beginning dialog with Gate and Isoc after beating one investigator boss had Isoc talking about acquiring the body of Zero and Gate saying he did not need it).
DeleteOriginally though, X5 was supposed to be the last X game before going into the Zero series, and Zero's body is found in a lab intact, though that was retconned into a copy body, just as originally, X5's bad ending where the colony damages the continents and Zero goes 100% maverick (that ending has the virus totally depleted probably from using it all on Zero going maverick, so Sigma and Wily are both deleted with that alt ending and thus no possessed skull remnants occur for a final blast), was supposed to tie into the Legend's series, X even saying he wanted to create Elysium, X5 also being released near the time of Legends 2, and the stage selection showing continents broken up from the colony turning into a bunch of meteors, indicating many land fragments would sink and you get the world of Legends. Of course the timeline splitting into the Zero series (good ending) or Legends (bad ending) from X5 was retconned long ago and instead we now have all 5 main timeline series being canon (I prefer that anyways). I'm happy they kept the X series going. Despite its flaws, even X7 can have funs bits to it, and it has decent explosions, but X8 is quite a bit better than X7, I think.
@Gary Daniel
DeleteFortress was more of a matter of speaking, I know it's Zero Space(零空間 "Rei Kuukan", with ぜろくうかん "Zero Kuukan" furigana, Rei means null or void or the number zero, but the furigana makes it clear that the kanji is meant to represent the number zero so it's Zero Space with the number and not the character), but it did blow up since X went from being pierced with a full body to a torso clearly indicating there was an explosion between cutscenes. I heard the claim of remnants of a Wily fortress also however with no backing what so ever only speculation. "Final Sigma W" was made up by Japanese fans and later accepted by the Anniversary collections, but originally that form didn't have a name since Compendium refers to it as just "Sigma 2nd Form" シグマ第2形態 on page 87. ?? has to be Wily otherwise why else would they keep Sigma's identity a secret?
"X5 was supposed to be the last X game"
Only from Inafune's side since the only thing he told X5's developers was to end the series (page 192 of Complete Works and check his name in the "Special Thanks" section, he had nothing to do with this game outside of that and by the looks of it, he didn't even check on it) and by the sounds of it wasn't sure much himself "I was originally planning on ending the series at around X4 or 5," "I really expected that to be the ending. And so I was all happy... 'OK, done with X5. That series is now closed off, now let's start Zero. I'm really excited to start Zero series.' Here's Zero, you know, he's kind of dead, and you power him up and he comes back to life, right? In my mind, in X5, Zero died. And so I'd always planned to make Zero come back to life in the Zero series, but then X6 comes out sooner from another division and Zero comes back to life in that, and I'm like, 'What's this!? Now my story for Zero doesn't make sense! Zero's been brought back to life two times!"(page 50 of Play magazine, volume 3, issue 4 - April 2004). In fact, the way Zero 1 starts makes it incompatible(until the retcons in Zero 2 and 3) with X5's ending due to the already mentioned disintegration and let's propose that that didn't happen and his torso was still intact. This doesn't fit with him having his legs and no arms in the beginning of Zero 1 prior to being resurrected. In other words consistency was already ruined, but I argue the responsibility falls more on Inafune both for being a series director and introducing a new entry that isn't consistent with the previous one than the rest at Capcom.
X7 is garbage, there are no redeeming qualities about that game. Sure X8 is a big improvement but it's hard to want to play that after the dumpster fire that is X7. It's the one game I don't want in my collection at all.
DeleteI love X8 with two caveats: Dynasty SUCKS and the end stages feel super short and uninspired.
DeletePlaying as the navigators was great, I just wished they had story dialogue. That was a wasted opportunity.
@Gary Daniel
DeleteI forgot to mention the entire area becomes a wasteland in X5's ending apart from X's torso.
"the timeline splitting into the Zero series (good ending) or Legends (bad ending)"
I always saw it as the "good" ending being left ambiguous as to where it'll lead next probably ending right there while the "bad" ending leads to both Zero and Legends series since Elysium is only mentioned in that ending and Zero's full body was still in Zero Space. With Dr. Light deleting X's memories of Zero and putting a protection to reject anything regarding Zero(Light probably screwed up and unintentionally modified something else) this could lead to him growing colder and eventually becoming the dictator of said Elysium(Neo Arcadia and Elysium are pretty much the same thing, during the development of Zero 1 there is concept art that refers to it as "Heaven", the real name of Elysium).
"the stage selection showing continents broken up from the colony turning into a bunch of meteors, indicating many land fragments would sink and you get the world of Legends."
But if that was true, it would've been showed or mentioned after impact in that cutscene or in the ending especially in that 1 week time skip. One thing people constantly gets wrong(not you Gary) about the "good" ending is that fragments of Eurasia hit Earth anyway, X6 didn't retcon it. Here:
Alia: Destruction of the colony is... 86%!(Shuttle succeeds, that isn't 100%)
Alia: We have succeeded. The colony has been destroyed. Although scraps from the colony will fall to the Earth, they shouldn't cause severe damages. We barely avoided total destruction... The damage is significant... I wonder when things will be restored.
Douglas: We'll take time and repair the damages.
Colonel: Right. We have a lot to do... before the Earth can return to normal.(Enigma succeeds)
So, if there are scraps left when it's destroyed by Enigma then why wouldn't there be scraps when the shuttle does it? Especially at 86% even if a percentage is not given to the Enigma.
The reason I put so much emphasis in the sourcebook is because it contains lore that's unique to it that was intended. The Daizukan books for example had the beginning of Rock wondering whether Blues was an ally or not only to be answered in 5. X4's one did have a change that indicates that the game script was changed after the book with the section where Colonel instead of refusing to go with X/Zero, he accepts, after the IH give Repliforce an ultimatum to hand him over for execution or else all of them are branded Irregulars.
In the character profile for VAVA in the official X8 site, the V in VAVA V stands for five because the events of X5 and X6 were caused by Sigma and VAVA though some are trying to spread disinformation of this as if this means Dynamo got retconned into VAVA which it doesn't, it just means he was around behind the scenes. Here's the text:
Vは『5番目の~』を意味しているが、これは今作において『X5』『X6』の事件はシグマとVAVAが引き起こしたという設定となっており、最後に登場した『X3』の『VAVA mk-II』から更に数えて5番目となっているため
"This doesn't fit with him having his legs and no arms in the beginning of Zero 1 prior to being resurrected"
DeleteMaybe originally, before the retcon of X6, Zero's dead torso was repaired and sealed in the lab (before the retcons). Seems as of the Zero series or sometimes after the X series prior to Zero, humans were then able to analyze the originally unanalyzable X and Zero and the virus, and Zero does take place a long time after (100 years). In any case, I'm happy for the retcons, Dr Weil, etc.
As for a control chip, seems reploids' minds go to cyberspace upon death and can be resurrected, like Vile, the investigators in X6, reploids in the Zero series, etc. Is a control chip even needed to revive them? Maybe originally in the days of X2, it was, but was even that retconned?
Also in the Legends 2 Island map, one can see many meteorites craters covering the island selection screen, which could have been indicative of the destructive meteor shower impacts from the destroyed Eurasia in X5 (original bad ending before the retcon). The earth is far more damaged in the bad ending than the good ending and seems more recognizable in Zero 1 than in Legends. The bad ending seems to indicate Sigma and wily and the virus was completely depleted, unlike the good ending where a few years pass and a mechaniloid randomly goes maverick (indicating infection but maybe Sigma's mind is dead and just the virus persists and maybe Wily still does in viral form too) with Zero's saber in X's hands.
DeleteAs for X originally becoming hostile before the retcon in Zero 1, he did have to fight mavericks for 100 years without Zero, which should drive anyone mad, and at the end of X5's good ending, he had Zero's saber and fought while Zero was in his memories giving him motivation, but he handed the saber back to Zero in the first stage of Zero 1 to defeat the golem, which seems consistent to the good ending of X5, but X (as a cyber elf and even copy) remembered Zero just fine and no memory loss whatsoever. In the bad ending of X5, he had no memory and couldn't accept any memory of Zero. The dialog indicated that Light intentionally reprogrammed X to be like that to avoid any pain with Zero being truly dead in the bad ending of X5.
"But if that was true, it would've been showed or mentioned after impact in that cutscene or in the ending especially in that 1 week time skip."
DeleteX6 follows the good ending of X with Zero's saber retconned to go directly into X6 and not into the Zero series with X fighting for 100 years alone first. So the 3 years seems retconned into 1 week or 3 weeks. So in the X6 path, no shattered continents. Also the stage selection screen in X6 shows the globe intact, which contradicts the bad ending of X5. Also X having Zero's saber and remembering him matches the good ending of X5. X5's bad ending is a what if non-canon path, but I think it is safe to say was original intended to branch into Legends, and the good ending into Zero (this was before X6 was even planned or a thing).
In the bad ending of X5, clearly much more of the colony hit the earth than in X6 and the there was far more damage than the good ending (continents shatter only in the bad ending when much more of it hits earth), though damage occurred no matter the path (which is why Zero was fully awakened vs partially in the bad path), despite the intro-cutscene showing it on the ground intact and the first level showing it, but I guess it shattering into a million small meteorites is more damaging than a huge chunk of it crashing in one spot.
"continents shatter only in the bad ending when much more of it hits earth"
DeleteWould you look at that! The map screen in X5 after the shuttle fails does show the Earth shattered. Almost all of Europe is gone except for France, Spain and Portugal, and very small parts of Norway, Sweden and Finland. In X6 instead it is a bit of a crude drawing, but it seems to show no major changes. However, something as important as the world flooding should've been mentioned at some point shortly after impact or in the ending(in the shuttle failure ending). Either the X5 team wasn't notified about addressing it in the game or they simply forgot.
"Maybe originally, before the retcon of X6, Zero's dead torso was repaired and sealed in the lab (before the retcons)."
I was thinking more along the lines of that in the shuttle failure ending since Zero's full body is still in Zero Space there could be two possible scenarios:
1. After the space blows up, Zero's body is left as seen in Zero 1. Someone could've attached him to that structure and removed the arms or the arms blew up and attached him to the structure or the arms blew up and the structure fell and attached itself to Zero.
2. Due to the nature of Zero Space, the place itself could've teleported multiple times and like the first scenario someone found and modified him.
I also was thinking X having a protection against any data related to Zero would fit perfectly with prototype Zero 1. Zero loosing his memories(like the final) and X getting irritated when he starts hearing about him again long after X5(I'm not really sure if the prototype version would've been near or exactly 100 years, but it's possible) to then both of them running into each other. X would deny Zero standing right there and Zero would have no idea who X is or remembering some bits and pieces failing to talk X out of fighting him(I doubt this possibility because Zero isn't normally like this, he's simply too trigger happy), it's a perfect tragedy. It's also why I think Dr. Light was the one who originally gave Zero his saber back possibly blaming himself for how things turned out or feeling he shares some responsibility. It's why I think the shuttle failure ending leads to prototype Zero 1 and subsequently Legends and not the shuttle success ending.
@Gary Daniel
DeleteI forgot to write that in the second scenario, it's possible that a part of Zero Space blew up and another didn't with this chunk of the space teleporting itself until it reappears at some point before prototype Zero 1 or Zero's body was sent to cyberspace prior to Zero Space fully blowing up and cyberspace simply at some point spits him out.
I was the September 5, 2024 at 12:37 PM anonymous, I just forgot the name. Also, I wanted to say the way the shuttle failure ending is presented with the rest of the crew referring to X's come back as not a miracle and with the inclusion of the sad music track(instead of X's theme), it fits more with the nihilistic worldview of Zero(in the prototype, of course).
DeleteForgot to mention that I'm really interested on what's the story behind the track called "Armageddon". I speculate this was for an ending where the Earth is completely destroyed. It comes off as such a defeating theme where despair has totally took over with Sigma succeeding(imagine if he betrayed Dynamo and left him there or maybe Dynamo doesn't even care). However, what's Sigma's plan from this point on? Travel across space in virus form, lol?
Delete"However, something as important as the world flooding should've been mentioned at some point shortly after impact or in the ending(in the shuttle failure ending"
DeleteI figured it took a long time for some fragments to sink below the sea. In Legends, ruins are in the sea too, indicated structures were built on them before they sank (if we go by X5's bad ending original intention, it seems). Also Zero space shut down as the virus dissipated, as we see when X was being repaired by spirit/AI Light, but perhaps cyberspace was still strong enough in that location for Light to manifest to fix X. As of the Zero series, no more virus. Even the crash site of Eurasia in Zero 4 shows nature coming back and no X5 anomalies. I think some people are over thinking it. And in Zero 1, clearly someone put Zero in their and sealed him, but actually he does seem to be missing an arm and other stuff before Pasi the elf woke him.
In any case, I think It's obvious the bad ending ties into Legends and the good into Zero originally before the retcon. Capcom doesn't have to spell everything out for fans to put it tall together, I would hope. Lots of head canon added above much more than me even ;)
I'd rather Legends be it's own timeline. As much as I hate multiverses. I don't like it being the capstone of the series.
Delete@Gary Daniel
Delete"I figured it took a long time for some fragments to sink below the sea."
Yeah no, not buying it. Something like either flooding or continent fragments sinking not being noted during the previously mentioned instances makes zero sense especially in an advanced human and android society. It's ridiculous.
"Also Zero space shut down as the virus dissipated"
I think that's possible, but I'd have to see evidence of that. It's just as likely Sigma was the one keeping it all together. Also, what causes the virus being dissipated(that if you mean dissipate as "fritter away" and not "spread")? Zero's death or the complete destruction of his body or Sigma's death? It's just not really clear.
"Eurasia in Zero 4"
We are discussing the pre-retcon era, don't switch back and forth. The virus being dissipated is not true for Zero 2-4 because of the introduction of the Mother Elf, but Area Zero did heal. This only could apply to pre-Zero 2 with either the final Zero 1 or the prototype.
"I think It's obvious the bad ending ties into Legends and the good into Zero originally before the retcon"
Honestly the tone of the good ending doesn't fit at all with the Zero series(or probably a single game back then) pre-retcon. If it was so obvious, it would've been made fact by now so I'll say for now it's speculation ;).
I have made it clear when I was speculating and when I was quoting the source material.
@shrap
I agree that it's lame however I'm interested on how things would fit after everything is said and done. Unfortunately, Legends 3 hasn't happened yet so I can't judge it as a whole.
The thing is, is that I'm not speculating in a vacuum. For example, why would X give Zero his saber back if he has no memories of him, let alone rejects any data regarding him(in the context of the shuttle succeeding ending allegedly leading to the Zero 1 prototype)? It makes more sense for Dr. Light to take it after finding Zero's body after he realizes X has been acting malevolent towards Reploids to prevent it from falling into the wrong hands be it X or someone that follows his orders or some other kind of menace/danger(this doesn't mean someone else didn't find Zero's body and modified it, I'm hinting both happened) OR the one who found Zero's body could've taken the saber and later gives it to him(I find this more unlikely than the other one). Based on my research, it's possible the cutscene of the saber being thrown from a computer it's not a part of the retcons of the final Zero 1, only that the ball of light is X after beating the main bosses when he unlocks the trans server leading to the Neo Arcadia Shrine/Holy Region/Sanctuary/Sacred Precincts(????? : NOW GO. TERMINATE THAT COPY OF ME... TERMINATE WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE..., Japanese:「サァゼロ、イクンダ…ソシテ、ボクノカゲヲ…」, Google Translate: "Come on, Zero, let's go and take my shadow." ). So if the real X in the prototype is the villain then who was the ball of light? For me, it's very very very likely it was Dr. Light.
DeleteAnd when I wrote "This only could apply to pre-Zero 2 with either the final Zero 1 or the prototype." I'm referring to the possibility of the virus dissipating in either version of Zero 1 pre-Zero 2 not Eurasia in Zero 4.
Whoops, that last comment was in the context of the shuttle failing ending. The context for the shuttle succeeding is this:
DeleteWhy would X give Zero his saber back while Zero is helping The Resistance? Because in this scenario(the prototype) X is not a Cyber-Elf, but has his full body and he has already gone insane (somehow from X5's "good" ending). "Here Zero, take your saber so you can strike me down later". Unless a really unlikely scenario is proposed: The opening stage proceeds as the final up to the point he's fighting the Golem until X runs into Zero, X orders his forces to cease fire, gives back his saber, a whole section exists where X gives Zero a tour through Neo Arcadia, Zero is appalled at the treatment of the Reploids and decides to join The Resistance. Such a huge change in timeline structure in less than a month before release is extremely unlikely.
If the headcanon part of your comment is just a joke, no worries then. But, if it isn't then you don't know what it means. All it means is that in your head(get it?), it is set in stone. Some use it in a sarcastic manner to refer to those that try to pass their headcanon as canon which isn't what I'm doing. I'm saying that all I'm doing is speculating in a rational way which is why I can quote myself with words and phrases such as: "possibility", "For me", "likely", "it's possible", "I think", "I speculate" rather than trying to pass it off as without a shadow of a doubt.
DeleteOh, and when I wrote this: "Yeah no, not buying it." I mean that X5 absolutely should've addressed the continents sinking, not that they didn't build all kinds of structures on them which I can see it being the case(possibly as a contingence after the impact but before they fully sink?). It isn't really an inconsistency with Legends, but rather a mistake by X5 due to omission.
You posted a lot in a row, so don't be surprised if I miss some things. I will cover just two quotes here for now since it too much to read and I have things to do soon.
Delete"I think that's possible, but I'd have to see evidence of that"
The evidence is at the end of X5, we don't see Zero space after the Wily skull was shot by Zero and instead we see it turn back into a barren desert and the sun with X laying dead before Light fixes him. So the virus seemed to have weakened enough to dissolve the cyberspace region at the crash site.
"Honestly the tone of the good ending doesn't fit at all with the Zero series"
It fits it much more than the bad ending does. He fights on with Zero's saber and remembers him. In Z1, he fought without Zero for 100 years and handed the saber back. Of course even if we go by the original non-good X intention and no copy X, 100 years pass, so many things can change, but in Zero, X even if not a copy and was originally intended to be the bad guy was supposed do remember Zero. But in the bad ending, he was not, and seems the virus is dead and 5 years pass. The world is far more altered in the bad ending than the good from more damage. So the path where he remembered Zero seems to fit just fine. Definitely does not fit the bad X ending when he talks about creating heaven, which in L2 Elysium is called, and the continents are shattered from colony meteorites in X5, which seems to match the meteorite impact craters we see on the L2 map before that was retconned. Funny how L2 was released shortly after X5 too. Maybe at that point of X5 being done, Zero was already in development enough that they already retconned and planned to have copy X, and good X give him back his saber.
I think Capcom makes plotholes and doesn't think many things through, so I think it was their intention for X5 to branch into those (I played it back in 2001 and noticed that even before hearing X5 was supposed to be the last X game), but they weren't thinking everything through. I remember when Zero appeared in X7 and I was confused because it showed him sealed in X6, thinking X6 was the last X game that went into Zero at the time.
So we are arguing about a mess because retcons abound. I guess asking Inafune is the best thing we can do to settle the speculation. I wish we could do that.
Sorry I only read part of what you said so far, but later will come back and read the rest. Also saw your last part and agreed, X5 should have addressed it, but capcom seems t like being vague and not thinking many things through. The idea of the colony impact being able to shatter landmasses on earth like that alone is silly, yet they put it in there.
BTW, to avoid misunderstand, I only meant at ground Zero in X5, the virus just in that location at the end was reduced and dissipated as evident that the strong energy that created cyberspace there disappeared. I was not referring to the virus being destroyed in the series there (maybe with exception to the bad ending where Sigma and Wily seem completely destroyed with the virus all used up and 5 years later X is still underground wanting to fix the world), but of course in the canon good direction branch, it was not destroyed until Mother Elf destroyed/absorbed it far later (probably when Wily's viral self died too since Sigma's viral self (mind) seems dead as of X8).
DeleteAlso yeah, maybe I forgot what head canon meant. I thought it meant when a fan makes things up that are wild and have no hints to back them up. We all can do that, but some may go further than others. For example, I saw a person claiming Sigma's partner met in X5 was Gate (strange), instead of Wily, or claiming that the Flood in Legend was caused by Master Thomas (wild speculation), yet ignored how much time is in between ZX and Legends. Of course maybe we misunderstood a little too, and all the Capcom retcons do throw us off.
On a side note, funny when X7 was coming out and I saw Zero in the trailer in 2003, I then thought 3 branching timelines was the thing: bad ending in X5 branched to Legends, good ending then goes into x6 and if it is Zero's ending in X6 where he is sealed away, that branches off to the Zero series, but the X ending went into X7. That was retconned though so that all 5 main series take place. It might have been the intention was first having 2 timelines branching off of X5, then that changed to 3 once X6 was unexpectedly created (Legends, Zero, and the later X series being 3 separate timelines). Capcom likes confusing us and not answering questions.
"we don't see Zero space after the Wily skull was shot by Zero and instead we see it turn back into a barren desert"
DeleteIf I'm getting this straight, you think in the "good" ending due to how Eurasia was destroyed, majority of the virus was inside the small chunks of the colony. Then after Zero destroys the skull, the virus in that area where some of them(or just a single small chunk) crashed completely dissipated(seems to comprise China, both Koreas, Japan and Russia).
But, in the "bad" ending, the virus that was inside the bigger chunk that hits that same area that would become Zero Space went inside Zero so Wily is inside him. Not sure if that makes the most sense because why would Zero Space disappear if Zero's body is still there regardless of him being dead or alive(for example, in X4 the virus was active in the capsule)? If Wily's consciousness is what's keeping the virus around, shouldn't that area have disappeared as soon as he died(since he was merged with Zero) or did he leave Zero's body to merge with Sigma and then for whatever reason truly died? Or, after Wily's death Sigma's consciousness was keeping the virus stable? Maybe, it's possible it's that last one.
Also, I don't think Zero Space is cyberspace, but rather that it interacts with cyberspace and can randomly summon things from there.
For something different, I was wondering, why would this time Sigma's death be more definitive than any other time?
"100 years pass, so many things can change"
The shuttle succeeding ending of X5 points that X has matured after Zero's death as evidenced by the following dialogue:
Hunter A: Since that time, Captain X's eyes have changed... ... and sharpened...
X: I can face any enemy now... I will feel this way... as long as I have this Saber... I'll do it today, Zero... with you...! Forever...We'll be together...Zero...
Even in 100 years, I doubt X would lose his composure in this ending.
"was supposed do remember Zero"
Sorry, but for the prototype intentions I can't find any evidence of that. Besides, there's no comment on the state of the Earth in Zero 1.
"So the path where he remembered Zero seems to fit just fine. Definitely does not fit the bad X ending"
I wouldn't say it's definite because there's no proof in the prototype intentions. Again, Neo Arcadia was called Elysium during development, it's just not clear at what point they did the switch, but there's the chance it was part of the changes prior to a month. This also doesn't contradict the possibility that both names could coexist. For example, X calls it Elysium, but officially it is Neo Arcadia. As I exemplified before, if a villainous X remembered Zero then it'll need some really clunky exposition of why X would even give Zero his saber back instead of downright killing him on sight(apart from greatly modifying the plot structure which would be extremely hard to do in a month and the evidence points to no major changes being made).
Zero Official Complete Works says the following changes were made one month before the final:
ITO: "On top of that, the 'X' series was still continuing, so we put in an emergency stop and inserted Copy X" - Page 168
HONDA: "That was also when we came up with the idea that Copy X was Ciel's creation" - Page 169
It also doesn't mention whether X would remember Zero or not.
From this, the following changes can be deduced:
-Ciel's dialogues were modified(altering lore and her backstory)
-The dialogues of the ball of light were modified
-Added sprite of Cyber-Elf X
That's it, the rest was the same.
Going through the transcript, this is the first hint towards the Copy X retcon:
DeleteCiel: The world has become out of control. It's all because of Neo Arcadia... Extreme justice, where peace is maintained by force. Reploids were sacrificed for the happiness of humans. It was I who created Neo Arcadia... And it was I who regenerated X... It was I...
Zero: What? What do you mean "regenerated"...? You resurrected X like you resurrected me?
Ciel: No. It's different... You are an original, meaning that you are exactly like what you used to be... But X is...
"For example, I saw a person claiming Sigma's partner met in X5 was Gate (strange), instead of Wily, or claiming that the Flood in Legend was caused by Master Thomas (wild speculation), yet ignored how much time is in between ZX and Legends."
DeleteThat first one is weird, I heavily doubt that. I find it extremely hard to believe the X5 team already had Gate in mind by then. I can't say either way for the second one, but I won't be surprised if Capcom retcons it to make it canon.
"For something different, I was wondering, why would this time Sigma's death be more definitive than any other time?"
DeleteYes, Zero space was a unique kind of thing (not normal cyberspace), but I did read that the virus is anchored to cyberspace which helps Sigma to keep coming back or makes it really hard to destroy the virus, and when the energy is strong enough, information can become matter (like Sigma in X2 manifesting machines from thin air in a grid or how Light may make parts from a capsule appear), or even Omega using cyberspace to heal. I was watching Reploid Revo stuff too (if legit). That cyberspace in the MM universe is a realm that overlaps reality and fundamental to reality, and reploids go there when they die. Not sure if that is legit.
Speaking of dissipation, maybe most or all of the random virus spread across the world dissipated over a short time since it was spread so thin (unless it somehow concentrated in area Zero after impact), but the dense core of it infecting Zero and in the crater was deleted if Sigma and Wily don't survive seemingly in the bad ending of X5 since they are nowhere to be found and 5 years pass in that path (Sigma and Wily could not replenish themselves if it is all used up).
In fact, I thought maybe when Zero awakens, he is possessed by Wily. X told him he sensed something more evil than sigma within him and told it to get out of his body, and before awakening, we see ?? telling Zero to get up, he is the strongest, and to destroy X. I thought the same in the battle in the cave when the W appeared on his forehead (wily possessing Zero).
The bad ending seemed to be about just rebuilding and moving on with the virus, Sigma, Wily, and Zero dead for good and nowhere to be found. It was also mentioned by Alia after killing That Repliforce Pegasus boss that Sigma used up all of his viral self and wouldn't be able to replenish (either she was wrong if you get the good ending or that was retconned). Seems when Zero goes maverick, even more of the virus was used up. In the bad ending, we don't even see the Wily skull remnants appear at all. A the least the Zero virus part (existed only in X5) seemed to die at the end of X5. The maverick strain and Sigma variant is still around especially with the good ending and later X games, and with the bad ending, 5 years later, instead of of X being called into action to fight more, it comes across as a 'let's rebuild and move on'.
Of course because Capcom is so vague, you and I have no choice but to speculate on small details, but it could be that we are both over thinking it and Capcom didn't mean for it to be so complicated.
Logically, 100 years of fighting and all that time passed will change someone. Killing mavericks for that and your close and maybe only friend being gone for so long could twist a person to be ruthless (never mind 100 years of fighting). anyways, both copy X (who was supposed to be the original before the retcon) and cyber elf X recognized Zero. Also maybe in the prototype, what is now cyber elf X giving Zero the saber was just some random cyber elf giving him the saber or even Pasi from the resistance or maybe it was stored in the lab. Maybe we can ask Inafune? Who knows, maybe the resistance did give him the saber and they edited that out.
DeleteI agree with him on this from reddit since it seems most likely:
baomai1411
•
6mo ago
The bad ending was implied to be setting up a timeline branch into the Legends series. (Or at least it felt like it)
Zero is just...gone, there's nothing left of Sigma, and the ending doesn't even focus on "keep on fighting for justice" but rather "rebuilt what was lost, and moving on", gave a feeling that was truly the end of the mavericks and slowly lead to the future that was Legends.
If anything, it's the good ending that was setting up Zero series, since the very ending scene blatantly explains why CyberElf X had the Z-Saber in the first place - he was literally holding on to it up until Zero somehow came back after "disappearing".
We are debating pre-retcon (sometimes easy for me to mix post recton in there too). Of course I will admit that ultimately it doesn't matter at this point since X6 was created and made the good ending of X5 canon (as shown in the intro cutscene of X6 and the globe is intact on the stage selection). Thus the bad ending never happened and they now made is so Classic, X, Zero, ZX, and Legends all happen in one timeline. But it does seem 2 timeline branches with X5 being the last X game, then retconned to 3 branching timelines once X6 came out and X7 was announced showing Zero playable despite the Zero sealing scene in X6 was the intention before they confirmed that Zero and Legends both happen vs a timeline split.
DeleteBut I like the final choice and happy all 5 series are deemed canon, and I'm happy they retconned the Zero series into what it is since the prototype and having no Dr Weil seems lame. If the prototype was canon, then who would the enemy be after killing the real X as the final boss? Would Zero 1 be the only Zero game or would X just get new bodies Sigma style, else some new unknown final boss for Zero 2 then and no Elpizo or Dark Elf? That would be weird. I find it interesting to imagine how Zero would turn out, but it was likely changed for the best. Seems if X was the villain in Zero 1, they would have trouble making more Zero games.
"the virus is anchored to cyberspace"
DeleteCan I see where that's from? As a guess it isn't too bad though. On the other hand, that would mean the virus would have to be completely eradicated inside cyberspace. I'm not sure if Omega is only a reference from an optional boss fight or it's really canon.
"X told him he sensed something more evil than sigma within him and told it to get out of his body"
Yes, but X told him that he would destroy/defeat(in Japanese) him not to get out of Zero's body, close enough though(I might be getting too technical with this):
X: I'll destroy you, whoever you are, and bring back the true Zero!
"It was also mentioned by Alia after killing That Repliforce Pegasus boss that Sigma used up all of his viral self and wouldn't be able to replenish (either she was wrong if you get the good ending or that was retconned)."
Hmm... I cannot find anything like that for Pegacion, but I did find this:
Alia: "With regard to DARK NECROBAT... He was a Maverick created three years ago by Sigma... But you have destroyed him... Since Sigma scattered a large amount of the Virus, he doesn't have any energy left to reproduce himself... By the way, we've found a FUEL TANK. Now the Shuttle will be able to fly to the space colony... Please return to the Hunter Base quickly."
There's a key difference in Japanese though(had to "Kanjify" it by hand):
ネクロバットだけど…
シグマが作ったイレギュラーみたい…
３年前に作られたイレギュラーだわ。
シグマは本当に倒したのかしら…
いや、間近いなく倒した筈！
こんなに体量の
ウィルスを出したら…
さいせいするエネルギーも
残っていない筈だし…
あ、燃料タンクは見つかったわ。
此れでシャトルも
コロニー迄は
飛べる様に成ったわ…
ハンターベースに
戻ってきて。
Google Translate:
"It's a necrobat, but...
It looks like an irregular made by Sigma...
It's an irregular made three years ago.
I wonder if Sigma really defeated it...
No, he must have defeated it pretty soon!*
If he's released this much virus...
There's no way he'd have any energy left to regenerate...
Ah, I found the fuel tank.
Now the shuttle can fly to the colony...
Come back to the Hunter Base."
*Note: The "he" isn't actually there, sometimes Google Translate will make up a pronoun to make sense of the sentence structure. The official translation instead took the path that X or Zero defeated him(depending on who you are playing as), but the context could mean that Sigma in virus form defeated him(his mind taking over his body). Here's an alternate translation: "I wonder if Sigma really defeated it... No, I'm sure he did!"
She says "if he's released this much virus", she is not sure.
Yeah, we have to wait and see what Capcom employees say.
Got a buzz now....Aside from all this speculation from us both, I am sometimes bummed out that we will never get a Legends 3 (90% + sure) and seemingly no more main timeline sequels. I'm old enough to predate even MM1 by a few years (maybe you are too), and I wish the releasing of new games leading up to Legends would have never stopped. They put so much time between even ZX and Legends or even the creation of the master system that you could fit multiple series after ZX in there before Legends as if their intention was to make many games between ZXA and Legends. I wish they would have continued. I think most of us here wished the same. Many of us bought all the collections (on Steam for me) and even MM11 (on Steam), and they still refused to make more games. Not much we can do, it seems.
Delete@Gary Daniel
DeleteLet's say I'm from around the era of X2, 7, X3, 8. If we're lucky maybe they make some kind of contract with Inafune to finish off the rest of Legends 3's story(as potentially humiliating it would be for him, after all, that happened with a group of the X2/7 staff that became Inti Creates). The story goes that Tsuda and others quit Capcom then sometime after they were constantly asking Inafune to let them make a new Megaman game. He asked them(paraphrasing from memory) "why did they quit then?" But, eventually he talked with the executives at Capcom and made a deal, that being Zero. That's a summarized and slightly simplified version of the events.
While I'm open to more serieses between ZX and Legends, I fundamentally disagree with a lot of the decisions they made with ZX, like making it a backtracking game. I hope if they ever make a new series in-between that they are more careful thinking it through. I pre-ordered 11 and yeah, there isn't much to do. I can tell you some bits and pieces from ZX3 from what I found over the years. The name was ZXC(rumoured to mean "Cradle"), it used the character control code that would eventually be used for 9, rumoured to star Prometheus and Pandora, rumoured to them having some kind of connection to the Baby-Elves(possibly tying-up with the title), rumoured that the Gigamix drama tracks were a preview of the events in the game, and possibly being an interquel. There's possibly true information here in the Anonymous section:
https://www.rockman-corner.com/2008/05/rumor-round-up-rnr3-zx3-and-more.html
The only discrepancy is the name "Extremus", but games change names constantly during development.
@Anonymous September 3, 2024 at 5:27 PM
DeleteYeah, X6 needed more development time. I'm realizing that the Secret Lab stages requiring Jumper isn't really questionable because the original Rockman had you get the Magnet Beam and 4 had you get the Wire and the Balloon. I prefer that game design like if you really want to beat the game, you should put the effort to get everything. Jumper belongs to one of the Repliroids that can't die because he is in the sub stage of Wolfang's stage which has no Nightmare Viruses. Metalshark Player/Prayer's stage does have some unfair moments with the Repliroids because of the timing you are forced to wait until the press ascends and by then, a Nightmare Virus could kill any of them, and is impossible to scroll the screen backwards.
"Can I see where that's from?
DeleteIt might have been discussed by Reploid Revo, but I just noticed he is offline indefinitely and I can't even see him on youtube now. But I did say it was speculation, though seems confirmed that cyberspace is a realm. But at the least, somewhere I saw it said that in the MM universe, matter can manifest from data from cyberspace if the energy is high enough, and we know that the virus does create a high energy signature.
I found this...Not sure if this counts as a source though: https://megaman.fandom.com/wiki/Cyberworld#:~:text=Mega%20Man%20X%20series,-Reploids%20can%20upload&text=Data%20can%20also%20be%20materialized,such%20as%20the%20Sigma%20Virus.
"Hmm... I cannot find anything like that for Pegacion, but I did find this:
DeleteAlia: "With regard to DARK NECROBAT... He was a Maverick created three years ago by Sigma... But you have destroyed him... Since Sigma scattered a large amount of the Virus, he doesn't have any energy left to reproduce himself..."
Yes, I meant that. Speaking of, I do get tired of how localization changes stories and wording too much throwing us off. They should keep it as close to the Japanese original as possible. Same for anime. I watch subs these days though for certain anime.
"Data can also be materialized from the Cyberspace into the real world, including viruses such as the Sigma Virus"
DeleteWhile data can be materialized that doesn't mean the Sigma Virus originates from Cyberspace or that it is "anchored" there and there are no sources on that wiki so I'll write that it doesn't count.
"Logically, 100 years of fighting and all that time passed will change someone."
Depends on the person, X is also not a human so his logic can be different.
"Also maybe in the prototype, what is now cyber elf X giving Zero the saber was just some random cyber elf giving him the saber or even Pasi from the resistance or maybe it was stored in the lab."
Could be, but missing out on a possible twist with Dr. Light comes off as a wasted opportunity.
"I agree with him on this from reddit since it seems most likely"
I have to disagree with his personal interpretation in the context of the prototype.
In the "good" ending, Zero has this grand farewell with his memory banks failing which make him look at his whole life. Zero coming back immediately after this would ruin the ending(which for the post-recon X6 did it anyway).
In the "bad" ending on the other hand, the events of Zero's death are never focused on again after Sigma kills him, he dies unceremoniously. That's because it's setting up the mystery of "is that really all that will happen with Zero?" only for the prototype to answer with "Zero's not completely done yet!" I find this more likely.
The anonymous comment above me is also me, I forgot the name again.
Delete"they now made is so Classic, X, Zero, ZX, and Legends all happen in one timeline."
I keep seeing this claim, but there is no proof of it. The closest to it is the book "Mega Man 11 - Celebrating 30 Years of the Blue Bomber" by Sebastian Haley and Doug Walsh of KBG Guides whose sources are and I quote: "Capcom Wikia and Mega Man Knowledge Base" which can be edited by anybody and they do get stuff wrong like the dialogue concerning the Colony Virus, and as I wrote at the beginning of the previous comment they sometimes don't cite their sources. This book is so bad it has been called out by a Japanese fan for being filled with rumours, typos and plagiarism:
https://archive.is/3PzNK
It's a fine interpretation of the timeline canon, but I wouldn't call it definitive.
"If the prototype was canon, then who would the enemy be after killing the real X as the final boss?"
That's easy, none because it was a one off entry, but if there was a plan for more games then I'm sure they would've come up with something like they did for the post-retcon. I don't think they had a plan though:
AIZU: "Towards the end of production, we felt that the character involved in this game were quite memorable in their own right, and that it would be a shame to let their story end so soon. To that end, we adjusted things a bit to leave it open for a sequel, but that's also why most of the game is not indicative of a planned sequel. The real question of whether or not we were going to do a sequel came up after we were pretty much done" - Page 169, Zero OCW
This is gonna be a silly question, but in the X series, is 'cyberspace' synonymous with 'the internet'?
Deleteerr, no that's not quite right... I mean is it the same type of thing as what we consider 'cyberspace' or is it just its own thing, divorced from the actual concept?
Delete@RS Proto Man
DeleteFrom the English scripts, seems to be a network, but I'm not sure if it is THE internet:
"A bug has corrupted the network. Dive into cyberspace and exterminate it."
―Stage description, Mega Man X4(It's the same in Japanese)
"A virus has escaped through a crack in the electrosphere! Destroy it!"
―Stage description, Mega Man X7(It's also the same in Japanese)
I'm not sure if the Electrosphere is the same as Cyber Space, I think they might be two different places.
Saikyou Daizukan has this written:
レプリロイドの姿をしているが、じつはコンピュータが作り出した一種のプログラム「サイバースペース」というコンピュータ内の仮想空間にひそんでおり、そこに侵入してくる者を無差別に攻撃する。
Google Translate:
Although he has the appearance of a Repliroid, he is actually a type of program created by computers that hides in a virtual space within the computer called "cyberspace," where he indiscriminately attacks anyone who invades.
クジャッカーステージの特徴
コンピュータ内の仮想空間が舞台の。非常に変わったステージ。いくつかのエリアに分かれていて、そのエリアをクリアした状況により、ランクがつけられるのだ、不思議なトラップも多いぞ。
Google Translate:
Kujacker Stage Features/Characteristics
This is a very unusual stage set in a virtual space inside a computer. It is divided into several areas, and you are ranked depending on how you clear each area. There are many mysterious traps.
The X7 manual has this:
スナイプ・アリクイック 自ら作り出した電子迷宮で、イレギュラーハンターたちを迷わせる。
Google Translate:
Snipe Ariquick He confuses the Irregular Hunters in an electronic labyrinth of his own making.
@Gary Daniel
"gave a feeling that was truly the end of the mavericks"
Incorrect(Revo, that is), the government didn't disband the Maverick Hunters in the "bad" ending since Hunters are still a thing(Hunter A and Hunter B) and Signas and the rest are still at the base after 1 week. In both endings, the Hunters have to rebuild what was lost, is just that is made clearer in the Enigma succeeds scenario. Not to mention the ominous tone of Hunter A's line: "We'd better think it's a miracle that Captain X came back safely..." along with Alia's comments of it not being a miracle hint at a possible disaster happening with X.
"5 years pass."
You keep mentioning this, but there isn't anything regarding 5 years:
-X5 Enigma/Shuttle succeeds ending: 3 years
-X5 Shuttle fails ending: 1 week
-X6: 3 weeks(4 weeks technically since the opening stage happens 1 week after Gate finds Zero's scraps)
I still see it impossible for a villainous X to give Zero his saber back due to the fact the opening stage has Zero helping the Resistance unless something similar to the unlikely scenario I proposed happened.
@RS Proto Man
DeleteCyberspace according to Wikipedia:
"Cyberspace is an interconnected digital environment. It is a type of virtual world popularized with the rise of the Internet."
Cyberspace according to Wikipedia's source "Introduction to Digital Media":
"An expression dating from the first decade of the diffusion of the internet. It refers to the
online world as a world "apart," as distinct from everyday reality. In cyberspace people can
hide behind fake identities, as in the famous The New Yorker cartoon."
Collins Dictionary tells this:
In computer technology, cyberspace refers to data banks and networks, considered as a place.
[computing]
The streets may be deserted but book launches go on in cyberspace.
Cambridge Dictionary has multiple definitions:
the internet considered as an imaginary area without limits where you can meet people and discover information about any subject:
You can find the answer to almost any question in cyberspace.
an electronic system that allows computer users around the world to communicate with each other or to access information for any purpose:
A group of knitters has banded together in cyberspace to offer free patterns.
So the internet is a type of cyberspace.
@Prec's second comment
DeleteYeah I saw that, but also figured it would be odd to say Sigma's hiding on the internet vs say, inside a large company's servers.
@RS Proto Man
DeleteThinking the reference book description of Kujacker's stage, I'm pretty sure it's this:
-Cyberspace in the X series is any virtual space within a computer, not necessarily being part of a network.
-Cyberspace in real life is an ideal "world/environment/place" within data banks and networks.
""5 years pass."
DeleteYou keep mentioning this, but there isn't anything regarding 5 years:"
I just checked and you are right. 1 week. Not sure why I recalled it as '5 years'.
It does seem as X5 was a supposed to be the last game, maybe it would be the end of Sigma, even if the virus lived on. You beat him and he says 'but I won't die alone' which indicates finality. Not gloating about coming back or laughing. Also even if the virus in the bad ending was intended to get completely destroyed from being used up on Maverick Zero (who knows), it doesn't mean you get rid of your military (the hunters). And if only one week passed, then that's even more true since that isn't much time. Also mavericks without a virus can still happen, despite in X5, Zero claiming it is the virus to that causes all reploids to transform into mavericks in the Lifesaver scene. Or are you gonna quote Japanese again telling me that's a mistranslation vs an error on Zero's part since we know the virus is only one main reason?
In any case, I think the continents shattering into islands is a strong hint leading into Legends in the bad ending and I will maintain that position like I did even back in early 2001, it happened after meteorites hit all over the earth from Eurasia, we see craters on the L2 island selection screen and some craters are even in the ocean and on the edges of islands (which makes sense if it caused them to break off from the larger continents). It really does feel like they intended branching timelines (capcom doesn't have to spell out everything for us, I think alt timelines was an obvious original intention). Not sure why you would think the bad ending was supposed to go into prototype and the good ending does not. Seems reversed to me. Why the heck even make the continents shatter if it wasn't trying to hint at Legends from the bad ending? An impact like that in real life would not do that, but they sure went through the trouble to draw that map (it must have had some importance to hint at it).
Was it even a flood in Legends? There isn't enough water on this planet to flood the earth that much, and even if all ice melted, the shape of the planet would be nothing like Legends. In L2, what appears like a part of upper Europe and close to the north pole on the map clearly has snowy climates in any case, but less than the real world (the map does have 100 on a ruler probably in km), so global warming even if raising sea level would only be part of why the planet is altered. It could have just been the Eurasia catastrophe shattering continents and obliterating some of the land mass from the bad ending (pushing some of it under water too), the rest just separates while some big chunks stay intact and centuries later, some sink after Elder then Master system structures were built on them. It could have been the original intention in 2000/01 to have split timelines. Looks more like the land mass was damaged and altered. Africa got a big part of it missing in that X5 bad path.
I looked at them both and it does look like the L2 map and the upper landmass near the north pole after the shattered continents could be similar from an alt angle, and in L2, we see a small continents (that ice land mass):
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/megaman/images/f/f9/MML2Map.png/revision/latest?cb=20090227173350
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7wSaFhX4AEq--W.png
Of course in L1 or 2, there was a blurry map representing the globe in the flutter maybe. hard to find though, but it did show large chunks of land much bigger than small islands.
Also in the main timeline, isn't cyberspace also a realm that overlaps with reality? Of course I always thought of the virus as originating from the evil energy in MM8 with some modifications and program added, and it can be a highly concentrated solid form, or gas, or energy (like an evil energy overlapped with a program). So it''s good if it is not anchored in cyberspace as that would seem boring.
But I suppose we could accept a possibility that the bad ending could lead into the Zero prototype as you say (with the globe still altered), then after that one off Zero game, it goes into Legends sometime down the road. As for a missed opportunity with Light, I don't know if there was any indication Light still exists and is still around as of the Zero series, and Capcom is very good at missed opportunities so I would not expect that. They could have took the opportunity to kill off Sigma in X5 with just a mindless virus still existing and part of the virus with Wily in it still around and keep Zero dead up until the canon Zero series and continue the X series with X fighting alone and make it mostly about Wily's viral self being a final boss or random other enemies, but they missed that opportunity and kept bringing back Sigma. Seemingly Lumine in X8 could have been the new Sigma and re-occurring and could have had him come back a few more games. Even make some games about Elf wars, or could have brought back Bass and Protoman in MM11. Lots of missed opportunities. So no surprise. We fans seem to over think it more than Capcom themselves.
Delete"it doesn't mean you get rid of your military"
DeleteBut Revo was implying there are no Mavericks left(since you quoted him with: "gave a feeling that was truly the end of the mavericks") in the "bad" ending which if it was true it would've been mentioned that they had been reassigned to just rebuild the Earth or some other job or straight up stated there are no Mavericks left. Besides, in this comment you wrote: "mavericks without a virus can still happen" so you don't actually agree with Revo in that part, right? As for the virus, that seems to be an error on Zero's part.
I'm not against X5's "bad" ending leading to Legends that was never really what I thought, I'm saying it's possible the prototype intentions for Zero 1 were that it was a part of the puzzle taking place in-between. Of course, before the retcons in X6 and by the time of Legends 2 the retcons hadn't happened yet. Legends 2 came out before even X5.
For something different that applies to the current post-X6 continuity, one huge mistake Zero 4 did(if someone tries to make it a single timeline, that is) was having Area Zero at all because that means the impacted areas eventually healed contradicting Legends 2. Now, a completely different event has to happen to explain the map of Legends 2(that looks similar to the Eurasia incident).
"Of course I always thought of the virus as originating from the evil energy in MM8 with some modifications and program added"
I always thought that as well, but Capcom is too ambiguous. It's like they want their cake and eat it too. It also comes across as lazy and weak like they can't dedicate to a decision. Also as if they have no story to tell. Cyberspace was never explained so no idea.
At the end of the day, we'll believe in our respective theories unless Capcom confirms or denies something related to them.
That account "baomai1411" you quoted is not Revo. I thought you were quoting Revo because he has made articles here before and I would hope he would know something, I don't get why you're quoting a random account other than you agree with his interpretation.
DeleteAlso this part he wrote:
"If anything, it's the good ending that was setting up Zero series, since the very ending scene blatantly explains why CyberElf X had the Z-Saber in the first place - he was literally holding on to it up until Zero somehow came back after "disappearing"."
That applies to post-retcons(X6), not pre-retcons. Apart from the scenarios I already offered for the prototype, the only other possible reason a villainous X would give Zero his saber back is that he doesn't, but rather that it was stolen and when you consider a crazed X with his memories of Zero intact(if trying to tie X5's "good" ending to the prototype) that's holding onto Zero's saber would never let anyone get close to it, this scenario would be ridiculous, not that Interactive Image Creates aren't dumb enough to do something like that because they certainly are. Also, that guy you quoted is using the word "literally" wrong since he isn't referring to a piece of text.
I quoted a random reddit user, not Revo. I was bringing up that I thought Revo in one of his videos talked about cyberspace and the virus being tied in some form. He did talk about new gen reploids altering data to be immune to the virus, and how reploids can take data from cyberspace and manifest it in matter or something. I'm not quite convinced the new gen reploids were truly immune though since they all seem crazy or bound to become that way, or maybe the new gen reploid infection created a new strain that adapted to them to circumvent any immunity just as Sigma was supposed
Deletebe immune to viruses but was still altered and turned evil.
But looking at X5's bad ending, I could be wrong, but it feels as if X and those hunters were tucked away underground (in the screen in the cutscene) because the earth was very damaged. It just feels like in the bad ending, all the enemies are gone, maybe even most humans and reploids and life is gone, the lack of fighting or mention of a battle (of course only one week passed), even the music just felt so final and relaxed (same music as in the credits), but in that ending, the world is very damaged and all they can do is rebuild, it feels. It felt like the kind of ending you would get with an end to the series and no way to continue it. But the good ending has a more energetic 'let's fight on' and the world is still lively and in one piece vibe where the virus is alive and well, infected a robot, and even the hunter base seems intact and the sky looks normal as we see X with the saber in his hand. Almost as if the good ending was to make it appear the world was less damaged than it is in X6. Shuttle blows up the colony and the main piece does not collide, yet X6 shows it on the ground in more or less one big piece. Seems inconsistent with how X5 ended in either path. There was no situation in X5, AFAIK, where the colony lands in more or less one piece (especially in the good ending going into X6) like the cutscene of X6 shows. Maybe Capcom is just bad at consistency.
I actually thought the mention of 3 years was retconned to 3 weeks even or a typo, and the mechaniloid mentioned at the end of X5 was supposed to be the same one we fight in the 1st boss of X6, at least the ones who made X6 turned it into that. They may have retconned that 3 years to 3 weeks and made that berserk mechaniloid the same one we fight in X6.
"one huge mistake Zero 4 did(if someone tries to make it a single timeline, that is) was having Area Zero at all because that means the impacted areas eventually healed contradicting Legends "
DeleteWell it was retconned near the time X6 was made, so yes, Legends now has to have an alt explanation for the world being what it is. The shattering of the landmasses only happens on the bad ending path anyways, and they made the good ending and then X6 and beyond along with the existing Zero series canon where they all do take place in the same timeline. So I don't see the issue. Even in X6, as you know, the globe is in one piece on the stage selection. Even the cutscene of X6 and in game shows the colony is mostly in one big piece on the ground, which is consistent with Zero 4 though not so consistent with X5.
Just noticed this: Besides, in this comment you wrote: "mavericks without a virus can still happen" so you don't actually agree with Revo in that part, right?
DeleteI think 'most' mavericks are caused by the virus, so there would be far fewer in the future if the virus was truly dead in the bad ending + the bad ending gave me the vibe that most life was dead too (most things aren't going to survive continents shattering). I doubt that the bad ending would leave most humans or reploids alive still, but of course hostilities can and will happen in the future given enough time and if humans and reploids (or some other terrestrial robot race that mother units are based off of) survive long enough.
Ah, the censors filtered my comment.
Delete"how reploids can take data from cyberspace and manifest it in matter or something."
I don't think something like that was ever mentioned in the X series. Sigma in his virus form can manifest data and Zero Space seems to also be able to do so, but those are special cases. It would be nuts(like setting-braking) if any Reploid could do it, like really?
Also this part that guy quoted wrote:
"If anything, it's the good ending that was setting up Zero series, since the very ending scene blatantly explains why CyberElf X had the Z-Saber in the first place - he was literally holding on to it up until Zero somehow came back after "disappearing"."
That applies to a post-retcons(X6) view, not pre-retcons. Apart from the scenarios I already offered for the prototype, the only other possible reason a villainous X would give Zero his saber back is that he doesn't, but rather that it was stolen and when you consider a crazed X with his memories of Zero intact(if trying to tie X5's "good" ending to the prototype) that's holding onto Zero's saber would never let anyone get close to it, this scenario would be ridiculous, not that Interactive Image Creates aren't foolish enough to do something like that because they certainly are. Also, that guy you quoted is using the word "literally" wrong since he isn't referring to a piece of text.
"even the music just felt so final and relaxed (same music as in the credits)"
It honestly feels more like a sad track not really final, maybe a bit relaxed. The credits thing only applies to non-Japanese versions. It was Mizu no Naka regardless of the ending.
"made that berserk mechaniloid the same one we fight in X6."
That sounds really out there.
"Of course in L1 or 2, there was a blurry map"
DeleteIn Legends 2 to the side of the main room of the flutter, there is a blurry map, but it doesn't look like the whole world, more like a continent. I think Legends 2 takes place in the equivalent of Russia(because of Kalinka) specifically in-between the tail end of Russia all the way to the right and Alaska.
"to make it appear the world was less damaged than it is in X6."
In post-retcon in X6(but pre Zero 4), it seems to appear that one big chunk hit the Earth which doesn't mean there couldn't have been more chunks across the planet. The other difference seems to be that continents weren't shattered so yes the damage was less than pre-retcon however I still consider that that wasn't the only chunk. But now because of Zero 4, they have to come up with an alternate explanation.
Another possible hint that Zero in the prototype took from the "bad" ending is that the world that's shown outside Neo Arcadia(like the city that leads to the disposal center and the rest being a desert while places useful to them like the factory are still being cared for) is in ruins and the Resistance base is underground(along with all the other underground references like the hidden Neo Arcadia base, the transport train station being underground, the underground laboratory) probably indicating that the whole world wasn't completely rebuilt since X5, it might be a bit of a stretch though.
Saltiness about lack of games aside, the design looks pretty ace at first glance. That said, I'd need to see a better look at it to get a sense of how I feel.
ReplyDeletehow hard can it be to make a good 3d new megaman game on a decent budget that doesnt suffer from the failings of x7 and x8?
ReplyDeleteApparently pretty hard since Capcom doesn't want to put in the effort or budget. A 3d Mega Man that's actually good would 100% be possible.
DeleteIf they used Ex Troopers as a base it would be pretty easy for Capcom to make a 3d Mega Man game or heck, use the Devil May Cry 5 game engine. But that requires effort and Capcom won't do that with Mega Man.
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