A few months ago Capcom conducted a survey to gauge fans interest in their games and how they engage with the Capcom brand. One of the questions asked fans which games from Capcom's back catalog they would like to see remade. Among the options were remakes of the first three Mega Man games.
The results of the survey have now been published, revealing not only the response to that particular question but also that the Mega Man series is one of the most beloved Capcom franchises. The survey also provided other interesting data about fans' preferences and engagement with Capcom's games.
You can see all the relevant Mega Man data after the break!
A total of 254,148 fans voted in the Capcom Super Elections, with the United States and Japan having the most voters. Of the participants, 82% were male and 14% were female.
From all the data collected, Devil May Cry V was crowned the fans' favorite Capcom game, with Dante being their favorite Capcom character.
Now, regarding the survey questions that focused exclusively on Mega Man, here's a brief breakdown:
- For the first question, "Which Capcom games do you like the best?", no Mega Man ranked among the worldwide top 10 but Mega Man Legends ranked at #8 in Japan and Mega Man X at #10 in the rest of the world chart. You can see the full chart here.
- In the TOP 10 Favorite Capcom Game Series question, Mega Man ranked #2 on both the Japan chart and the rest of the world chart.
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- "Who is your favorite Capcom character?", X ranked at #3 with Zero and Mega Man making it into the top 10. You can see the full chart here.
- Question five, "Are there any Capcom game series (including spinoff games) that you would like to see get a sequel or new game?", the Mega Man series ranked at #2 only behind Dino Crisis.
- The sixth question, "Is there a game that you would like to see completely remade with the latest technology, including character design and story direction?", Mega Man 1 to 3 remakes ranked at #4 behind the Breath of Fire series, Onimusha, and a medley of "unknow games." (i.e those not among the initial choices)
If you want to deep dive to all the results, you can do so here. Also, jumping ahead a bit, I give Capcom credit for publishing and spotlighting the following comment:
All in all, Mega Man fared pretty well. However, this survey represents only a small sample of the millions of gamers who play Capcom games worldwide. Whether Capcom will take action based on this data remains to be seen, but one thing is clear: Mega Man is among the most popular Capcom IPs, and the desire for new games is crystal clear!
I'm happy Mega Man did so well overall.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I find a little concerning is the remake thing. I personally don't need another way to play Mega Man 1, 2 and 3. Which is only a concern because of how Capcom tends to do things. If they remake those games again, and they sell well, I imagine they'd want to remake 4, 5 and 6 and maybe even the others using the same engine and that would be the future of the franchise for however long. If they don't sell well, we're right back where we are now.
Still, no sense in being pessimistic about something that doesn't exist yet. And who knows, if they do decide to go the remake route, maybe they have an idea to make the experiences standout compared to the originals.
I agree, MM1-3 are beloved but there's little need to remake them, even if they'd benefit from the QoL additions to later games. I'd much rather have MM12 or X9. MM11 was a good return to the classic series but it played things too safe, and we could really use a more fleshed-out entry to freshen things up.
DeleteNice to know Megaman is still loved!
ReplyDeleteThe thing I disagree with its the need for remakes.
Yeah I'd love to see a new X game. Something next gen or highly stylized.
DeleteWe got robbed. Dino crisis? You people would rather want another Dino crisis game than save the Mega Man franchise? It figures that children would rather vote for a half d_mon and a character from Capcoms mass produced franchise than a Mega Man. I might as well give up on wanting Dante in smash. Kudos for Breath of fire doing well in the poll for most wanted remakes though. I would have voted for that if Mega Man's future wasn't on the line. I don't care about Breath of fire 3, but I would love remakes of 1 and 2. Breath of fire tends to get worse with each new generation anyway, so remaking the first two games would be a great way for that franchise to redeem itself. Another typical day in the year 2024. How Ironic that the Mega Man franchise died on the 11 year anniversary Mega Man was announced for smash. I don't like calling Mega Man dead, but I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel anymore.
ReplyDeleteTbf, Dino Crisis hasn't had a new entry since the third in 2003. They voted it because of their reaction to Exoprimal.
DeletePeople are allowed to like other franchises more than Mega Man
DeleteHuh.... X Ranking higher than Zero is a bit of a surprise.
ReplyDeleteNot always, Zero beat X in demos in their 20s and younger and in Japan. Even in worldwide he's only behind X by 561 votes.
DeleteIt's pretty satisfying to see. Whether it's because X is the underdog who grew to surpass him in X1, or because X1 is most people's favorite X game, or because Zero maybe got too much love and attention at X's expense, it's nice to see I'm not alone in wanting to see more of X than Zero. His character seems barely explored or focused-on in comparison, as well as X's "limitless potential" and what makes him special compared to Mega Man.
DeleteThe DEMO track from X1's OST isn't officially called "Variable X", but I've always liked that perspective. In each of those moments in the game, it's not just about Zero being a heroic badass, it's about X living up to Zero's expectation and surpassing him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRa7F1GyoMI
Well, it's not hard to like Zero over X. I mean, Zero has an actual character arc. X has an interesting backstory, but that's it. In 8+ games he has had absolutely 0 character development.
DeleteExactly. But despite all that, his gameplay is strong. The jump-and-shoot + armor upgrade formula is still lots of fun and full of potential. After Zero, ZX, and all the Gunvolt games, it looks like hungry X fans may outnumber hungry Zero fans.
DeleteGood. Zero is overrated. About time my boy X got some respect.
DeleteIt would be nice to see a megaman warriors game, or megaman x, zero ,axl training their kids, fighting alone side them , against sigma,Dr Weil,omega zero, finally a look for protoman and bass, the main boss prototype zero Dr wily first take on zero but true evil robot , then a story of how Dr light,Dr wily create x,and zero,and a Dr ax, the creator of axl
Delete.
X, Zero, and Axl can't have kids, they lack the capability. Even by the time of the ZX games Reploids still aren't capable of reproduction, they still need to be manufactured. It's not until Carbons show up in the timeline that it becomes possible to reproduce like humans do.
DeleteAxl doesn't seem to still be around by the time of the Zero series, but X and Zero still are with no signs of anyone to be their successors. Both of them are dead by the end of the Zero series, leaving it up to Vent and Aile 200 years later to take up their torch. As such even if there were no biological connection between X and Zero and potential successors, it simply never happens during the time they are alive, nor are any such individuals ever mentioned at any point in retrospect during the Zero series.
People getting super hype and comparing X to Zero because X slightly beat Zero in SOME polls ( X didn't even register in the Japanese poll) and wonder why some people find X (character) fans annoying.
DeleteX doesn't need a character arc because he's already perfect, jk. I'm being cheeky, but he did have a small arc in X7.
DeleteI know, right AnonymousJune 12, 2024 at 9:49 PM?
DeleteIt's almost as annoying as some rando popping in calling fans discussing fan things annoying. I mean, the gall of those fan people, right?
I'm sure the feeling is mutual, anon.
DeleteI don't care to fight about it anymore. I'm just pleasantly surprised to see it, and I'll take the win.
AnonymousJune 12, 2024 at 10:47 PM I wouldn't call that an arc... he ended up right where he started. He just had a little extreme case of I don't wanna fight.
Delete@AnonymousJune 12, 2024 at 9:49 PM
DeleteZero fanboy spotted. Grow up.
I'd argue that X had an arc. he slowly becomes more bitter about fighting, worries about becoming a maverick, then gets sick of all the fighting and looks for another way.
Deletehe was totally justified in X7. He wanted to find another solution, axl was causing problems for the hunters that X saw as pointless infighting. people act like X was doing something weird or wrong in X7, but really, it's Zero that's the oddball, he just wants to fight. that's always been zero, he just fights for fighting's sake. you give him a target, and he'll destroy it.
doesn't matter that he completely changes sides in MMZ and basically fights the maverick hunters of that time. X is the only one that thinks and feels in the series.
@Erik the Red The problem with those instances is they're false starts. They could have gone somewhere, but ultimately they didn't. In X4, X's fear of becoming Maverick only foreshadowed his rematch with Zero in X5. In X7, X returns to Maverick Hunting and didn't find another way.
DeleteAs for Zero, I wouldn't say he doesn't think or feel. He felt a lot in X4. But similarly to X, that didn't change anything but his apparent attitude toward his job. He has a momentary crisis, and then goes back to his job with absolutely no reservations.
So, Zero is cooler and had marginally more character development than X, most of which happened in X4 and X5. Between this and a whole series to himself, this seems to be enough for both X and Zero fans.
well, mega man isn't really known for having anything really resembling a story outside of MMZ and ZX by inti creates.
DeleteI don't think they're all really false starts for X, they're all about him feeling, having free will and worrying. the end of the SNES games all go into him lamenting having to battle other robots. he is constantly feeling and worrying.
X7 he enters the conflict seeing no other way or sigma is clearly involved. people mistake him for being a pacifist in X7 rather than being dedicated to a peaceful way and not seeing axl's dilemma as something worth fighting about.
the whole conflict of X7 starts out as in-fighting in a vigilante group that X dislikes for their violence, and red challenging the maverick hunters. X rightfully dismissed the whole thing as not worth his time. He later joins the conflict because he sees many innocent reploids are endangered, or because sigma is directly involved. X is always thinking and worrying.
Zero on the other hand is constantly just a killing machine. in X4, he just wants to fight colonel, doesn't care about what iris says, or even to talk, just "must stop repliforce". he even kills iris with no hesitation, then for some reason acts like he really cared about her, then goes back to merrily killing everyone. X5? Zero either merrily kills everyone or merrily wants to kill X, then supposedly dies as he merrily kills sigma again. what growth does zero have? even in X7, he just, with no justification, accepts red's challenge probably because he wants to merrily kill robots again. that really just seems to be zero's motivation, even in his X4 backstory, he just wants to merrily kill robots. that's zero, a murderous psycho. he's probably just a maverick hunter because they let him merrily kill robots. even in MMZ, his motivation seems to be merrily killing robots. he doesn't even care about his old body because he's still merrily killing a robot. didn't even care about X dying.
X cared deeply every time zero died though, and grew from those experiences.
It sounds like your refutation of my point is that, in demonstrating how much X thinks and feels after each conflict, the games are showing meaningful character development for X as opposed to Zero, who despite having arguably more dramatic plot focus in X4 and X5 at least, doesn't think or feel as much as X.
DeleteIf I have that right, then my response is this doesn't refute my point. Very little changes for either character. I don't think they're enough to make them that interesting or compelling, it's just enough to justify them continuing to fight.
I love the mental image. Just a part-time mentor, and full time KILLER!
Deletehe's thinking about and learning from each conflict, and developing as a person. he's doesn't develop much, no, but there is some development. he's even thinking about what lumine says in X8, and wonders if they are outdated and/or wrong.
Deletebut zero reminds him that he just wants to murder, and lumine is there to be murdered.
All my homies hate Lumine.
DeleteI still don't get why Lumine's speech got to X. Next-gen or not, he was still a demonstrable wacko who wanted the same kind of genocide as Sigma, except now including old Reploids.
DeleteSimilarly, I also didn't get why X didn't just open fire on Sigma's face point-blank in the Day of Sigma OVA. What was going through X's head?
One of Sigma's criticism's of X during training in Day of Sigma is that he hesitates a lot. Could have something to do with that. Alternatively, being oblivious for the sake of plot.
DeleteX ranking third makes me happy, especially above Zero which is kind of shocking. My goat deserves it
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agree! It's so nice to see
DeleteLol.. this answers everything.
ReplyDeleteI love seeing the love for BoF3 in several lists, it's seriously among the Capcom GOATs. People really want to see more from the series as well, myself included. Sad to see Mega Man ranking lower in comparison, but great to see Legends 1 and X1 around the same level of recognition.
ReplyDeleteIt's also really nice to see X ranking hirer than Zero in most lists. I wonder if that reflects people's changing feelings towards Inafune (unlikely), or simply that people have seen enough of Zero and want to see a little more of X. Whether or not that comes with some resentment towards Zero overshadowing X, I can only guess, but it's not surprising that the younger generations (10-20s) prefer Zero to X at a close margin. I felt the same way early on too.
Not a single Street Fighter Character in top 10? That is.... Surprising to say the least... wow. It almost makes me not trust the entirety of the rest of the results haha. Maybe people are straight tired of Street Fighter right now.
ReplyDeleteYeah I was also a little surprised about that.
DeleteI think that has more to do with the nature of fighting games causing Street Fighter characters to have more dispersed votes, rather than peoples' current feelings towards Street Fighter (Ryu did still rank in both sides of the "World Top10 vs Japan Top10" character results after all).
DeleteThe majority of the characters in the top 10 are ones that are the main playable characters of their respective games, which makes sense since that's generally the character a player would form the closest connection to. So following that logic, fans of a series/game with a single playable character generally gravitate towards that character being their favorite. Vice versa, fans of fighting games like Street Fighter where there are many playable characters are more varied in their favorite. (Even though Ryu is technically the "main character", long-time Ken/Guile/Chun-li/etc. are more likely to vote for who they've played the most.)
These kind of surveys serve as fan requests as well. When it comes to IPs that are being served those fans don’t come out to vote cause they’re being fed pretty well already. Mega Man, Dino Crisis, and Ace Attorney (even DMC cause it’s been awhile) have decent voter turnout cause fans want Capcom to start making more games for each of those. The big hitters are mentioned a wee bit less cause they’re already getting content on a regular basis.
DeleteThe exception being RE fans cause they are selfish and never satisfied /s. lol
If it makes ya feel better, I'm sick of Ryu. And Chun-Li. And seeing them in everything. And Capcom's never ending cameos.
DeleteI completely agree Shrap.
DeleteI'm glad that Mega Man is still popular. X ranking over Zero... now that's gonna be sparking up a rivalry between them. Overall, I hope Capcom takes these results, and put em to good use.
ReplyDeleteIt's a small sample with a bunch of things that can influence it. It's not very reliable data. You add another 200,000 people and retake the list nowadays and you'd probably have completely different outcomes. I personally think Leon is so high up because of the hype around his game at the time. My point is circumstances change this information is not reliable. For example I doubt people would want to vote for a Monster Hunter sequel after the announcement of Monster Hunter Wilds. The bestest data can do is give you a ballpark idea of where things kind of stand in a general way that a specific time amongst specific groups.
DeleteIt makes more sense to make a new X game before a Zero/ZX game regardless, especially considering Zero's own series already has a definitive beginning and end while X's series doesn't. The only things I can think of for Zero would be something taking place between Zero 1 and 2, or a spinoff starring Ciel taking place after Zero 4 and before ZX. That aside, X's series has much closer narrative ties to the Classic series and would be the most natural to make a continuation of that could indirectly tie back into the Classic series similar to how MM10 foreshadows Mavericks.
DeleteI just hope that if they do decide to finally make X9, they take notes from the Zero series regarding mobility and pacing. The big distinguishing thing that sets X apart from Classic is the fast paced action, and Inti-Creates really managed to capture that aspect perfectly. Most of the existing X series games feel clunky in comparison despite being fantastic for their time. I'd love to see X9 have a similar thing going on in which speedrunning through stages is an absolute joyride for skilled players.
I wouldn't want to settle for X9, though I would welcome it. I feel like the X series is ripe for revisiting. It could use a creative overhaul in the areas of story/world-building and game/level design, perhaps even creative spinoffs. That's why I wish they included Mega Man X1-3 as an option in the remakes question, though I understand why they probably chose not to: Mega Man is their OG and top seller right now, and besides X there is Zero and ZX, not to mention BN, SF and Legends.
DeleteAnd before you ask "a spinoff of a spinoff?", Misadventures exists and was a lot of fun, so it can work.
Zero is a spinoff of X, which is a spinoff of Classic. You can take it even further by saying ZX is a spinoff of Zero, making ZX a spinoff of a spinoff of a spinoff. It's not really so strange to us Mega Man fans, so nobody was likely to ask regardless.
DeleteHe wasn't talking about the Zero or ZX series.
DeleteI took the survey, saying that they should bring back mega man star force 4 and to make mega man battle network 7.
ReplyDeleteI asked for a new Battle network as well. I don't care if it's Battle network 7 or a spinoff like battle Chip challenge as long as it has Crash Man's net navi counterpart.
DeleteBattle Network games probably would have ranked noticeably higher if they didn't separate the versions.
ReplyDeleteX ranking higher than Zero is honestly shocking considering that he's more popular than X in the Mega Man community, but I'm not complaining, since X is one of my favorite characters right next to Zero. The future for the franchise is looking bright, imo.
ReplyDeleteWe've already known Zero was popular, but have we had any definitive proof or stats that he was ever MORE popular than X before?
DeleteI dunno about that, but from my personal experience growing up in the 90s/00s, I used to love Zero more than X until the PlayStation games, when my love started to wane a little until it bottomed out around the time of MVC3. By then I was tired of Zero overexposure and smug arguments online about how X sucked in comparison and had no viability in a fighting game.
DeleteThey're both still fun to play throughout the X series, but by far I still prefer and go back to X more.
Happy to see this, really…but…man, another call for remakes of the first 3 games? Forget that.
ReplyDeleteCapcom would do well to consider a Legends remake, especially with all the love for open world games as of late; granted I know that’s cost way more $$$ to make than a remake of a classic game.
I actually hope they don’t do it, just make sequels or a brand new series of games. Maybe keep pushing out legacy collections, just…take a break from classic already.
The survey only had the first 3 classic Megaman games as options for remakes, I know that's the one I picked just to skew my results towards Megaman as a whole. A Legends remake would be the best though, even a legacy collection with updated controls...
DeleteI voted "unknown/other" for that question because I wanted to say MMX1-3 instead. Interesting that "unknown/other" won the top spot in one or two of those lists
Deletekinda glad that didnt win number one though tbh, it shows that demand for megaman is high but not exactly just remakes of the first 3 games again
DeletePersonally I’d rather not have remakes of the first 3 games, they have been re-released to death already. The Legends games would definitely benefit from a remake though or at least a remaster with updated controls and better textures.
DeleteThe fact that they even needed a poll and survey really says a lot about how out of touch Capcom is. But I’m glad a lot of Mega Man fans filled it out, I honestly hope we get a new game and not some remakes. They honestly have a literal treasure trove of franchises they have neglected. Besides Mega Man I’d also love a new Final Fight, Power Stone or Viewtiful Joe.
ReplyDeleteSo X surpassed Zero eh? That pleases me. And I'm not the only one who is surprised.
ReplyDeletePeople are reading way too much into this. These polls and questions really don't mean as much as you think it does. Except for Dino Crisis that's the only one you can bet people actually want and would genuinely be a popular pic regardless.
ReplyDeletehey, capcom isnt going to waste effort on this for nothing.
Deletethey surely already have their plans, but sometimes, overwhelming public support for one thing or another, can potentially influence their direction. if say, they have two potential pitches for 2 franchise games, they may look at data like this and say "yknow, franchise A got a ton of support lately, and the last game did well. while franchise B didnt really get much mention. lets go with A"
it is if nothing else, simply a check of the pulse. Where's the capcom fanbase at right now.
There’s no conspiracy here. Capcom asked and people answered. People said they like Mega Man, X, etc. They said they like Dino Crisis, Ace Attorney, DMC.
DeletePeople said they would like more games in neglected IP. They took comments written by people who took the survey and displayed them for us to see.
We’re just reading what was said. Don’t know why you’re trying to convince everyone the data is actually wrong except from the part about people wanting Dino Crisis somehow. It’s absurd lol
Can someone tell me whats so special about dino crisis lol, I can definitely see where DMC and RE makes sense. But Dino crisis looks like had 2-3 games on the ps1 and seems like RE but with dinos? I'm sure its a fun series but I can't imagine that was more support then megaman even with my massive bias, is there a huge dino crisis community or was a massive influencer pushing for dino crisis?
DeleteI know Dino Crisis was pretty popular in arcades back in the day. The arcade cabinet experience with the actual gun is fun stuff, but yeah I dunno, besides that and Exoprimal maybe sparking up the DinoCrisis fanbase, I got no clue. Maybe over in Japan it's a bigger deal or somethin'?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHuh.. Put that in the wrong thread. Oh well.
DeleteCapcom has been doing these polls for years and nothing has happened with Mega Man.
DeleteNice to see that even in Japan there's still lots of love for Megaman.
ReplyDeletein past years it had seemed as if Megaman had lost popularity over in it's home country. Im not sure if it was specifically true or not, (and it has to be considered that even when there have been droughts of games or media, Megaman was still always somewhat present in the background in Japanese pop culture) but there was this perception in the 2010s that started to grow, that megaman had somehow become more popular in the west than in Japan, where it had slid into irrelevance, which was often touted as the reason for Capcom not making new games, because "Capcom only cares about Japan's perceptions, not worldwide"
So regardless, it's nice to see that even in Japan fans feel much like their western counterparts, that Megaman is long overdue for some more consistent love from Capcom.
I've heard the BN series is much more popular in japan where the classic series is more popular for the west
DeleteI'm not sure about other games, but I've heard that ZXA sold better in the west than it did in Japan, which might have influenced Capcom's decision to redirect Inti's resources away from ZXC to make MM9 and MM10 instead. MM9 and MM10 also play much more similarly to MM2 and use a classic art style despite MM7 and 8 using updated visuals to suit the hardware of the time, which could relate to MM2 being the best selling game in the series at the time of 9 and 10's production and release. Basically, it seems implied that Classic was more popular in Japan than later series and that Capcom believed mimicking MM2 in particular would maximize profits.
DeleteThe groundbreaking success of MM11 and the Battle Network Legacy Collection might have finally opened Capcom's eyes to the potential of more than just MM2-likes to be hot sellers. If so, that's probably the best news possible for fans of the slide and charge shot, and more importantly for the prospect of a new X series game given its similarity to that playstyle.
Mega Man is strong. I hope more new Mega Man games, please Capcom.
ReplyDeleteJust another survey where people say they love Mega Man and want more and Capcom won't do it. Whatever.
ReplyDeletethe 18 people that chose napalm man is so out of pocket and i love it
ReplyDelete… Onimusha? There's a name I haven't heard in a while. Goodness, that comes as a surprise. I'm also kind of surprised Breath of Fire ranked in this poll. That's a series I'm more familiar with, but I wasn't aware it had any kind of serious following.
ReplyDeleteThey dont need to change much but the graphics. I want to see megaman 2-4 were my favorite out of megaman series. Megaman X 1-4 were all my favorites just dont make it look X7-8 they were just bad.
ReplyDeleteX4-6 needs to get rid of the mid stage load screen. Make the stages flow smoothly no break. And that's just the obvious. There is more.
DeleteAnime cutscenes for X5 and X6 would be pretty hype. The UI could also use sprucing up. I'd also let X equip /switch armor parts on the fly.
DeleteSince we are talking what we would remake or change... Ignoring X7 and X8...
DeleteX1 is almost perfect. I'd add an option to take the best of the SNES and PSP versions and mix them together. A toggle between either soundtrack. A toggle between either armor part artwork. The anime (sans the Dr. Kain discrepency that ruins the canon, otherwise) Playable Vile and Playable Zero.
X2 Green Biker Dude needs a profile
X3 needs to have X refereed to as X, not Mega Man (at least I think it was X3?) A music option toggle (SNES version is better, fight me). And a way to turn off the forced radar at the beginning of every stage once you get the helmet. Make that a command instead, or a map in the menu.
X4 could use an alternate control scheme for the foot parts. I am always floating by mistake, I'd rather just turn it off.
X5 needs an Alia mute switch. It needs character mugshots. It needs individual armor parts and abilities.
X6 needs a way improved translation and individual armor parts. Zero's inputs fixed. Ground Scaravich's music needs to be changed (via optional toggle) because my eardrums can only take so much. Forced Death in Infinity Mijinion when rescuing reploids is unnecessary.
X4-X6 definitely need better menus. There is a lot of annoying menu lag and delay that can go away. Also the text needs to read faster and be more responsive to cancellation.
All the games should have a toggle for speed run mode that turns the story off and just lets you play.
All need to be re-translated and remove any localization's, including censorship. That shit needs to go or no deal.
A dream option of mine for a long time now has been a toggle to switch between Western and Eastern naming conventions. NOT switching between playing the US or JP version of the game, playing the US game, in English, with Japanese names for characters. If I were to make a Rockman Game this would be mandated.
And that's still just scratching the surface.
And since Capcom will do none of the above, well...
"Fine. I'll do it myself."
DeleteNo disagreements with the list above. In terms of remastering, I'd say it's just above bare minimum. I'd add a complete redub to X4-X6, with either a completely new voice cast or returning favorites (Gatha, Gilbertson, etc.), to go with the re-localization (as close to the original Japanese as possible, if not better in the case the Japanese script is also updated). Also one of the things that MHX added to X1 was the ability to stack charged weapon effects, which I'm not sure was a feature introduced in the Playstation games.
For full-on remakes, I don't have a hard wishlist other than adding new and cut content, like the White City in X1, the female X-Hunter and/or x-kai for X2, and content based on the MegaMission cards. Also letting X ride on the Ultimate Armor could be neat.
I'd also like to see the games become more reactive to the routes that players take through all 8 stages. In X1, if you beat Storm Eagle before Spark Mandrill, the Death Rogumer crashes into the power plant; beating Chill Penguin before Flame Mammoth freezes his stage; and beating Launch Octopus before Sting Chameleon floods his stage. I think it would be cool if developers expanded on this into it's own layer, so that it isn't just about picking the optimal route for armor upgrades or boss weaknesses, but also about what happens to the world as a result of your decisions, and how that might help or hurt your mission as well as how it shapes X's character and the Maverick Hunters' reputation. This could possibly be rewarded with shortcuts to the Final Stages, better or worse endings, and new secret stages or missions. Maybe even just new cutscenes, like with X6's Alia cutscene when you collected 3000 Nightmare souls or whatever.
Another note on proposed "mission strategy" layer: X1's stage select allowed you to switch between three screens - a map of island, a camera shot of what the stage looked like, and an info screen on the Maverick boss themselves, including names of their special attacks. There were always two: the weapon that you get after beating them, and then another ability they kept to themselves. The island maps were incorporated into X2 and X3 before getting replaced by the stage snapshots in X4, but the Maverick bios were gone. I always liked the whole package that X1 had, and would like to see that returned and expanded on in remakes of the series. Also, what if X could learn that extra move each boss had?
DeleteLike, if X could spare and incarcerate the Mavericks instead of killing them, maybe he doesn't get the same special weapon we'd expect, but he learns another of the Mavericks' ability instead.
DeleteHella good points Shrap. There's a ton of small things they could improve if they had to do some remakes.X6's Guard Shell activation and deactivation for Zero being janky definitely comes to mind...and a redo of the nightmare phenomena system of course. Probably a change in the Gate's Lab layouts (The "impossible jump" and the 1st stage wall spikes.) I would HOPE...that if they do a remake of any of those games, they also remake the music (with toggle for classic soundtrack).
DeleteThough, I'm probably in the minority here, but I dunno if I'm really on board with making individual equippable armor parts for the old games. I kinda like just having to get a full set and using just that full armor when it's complete. Might have to warm up to it and think about it a bit more. Like, I know that was thing since X1 and you have the swappable arm part in X4 as well; I'd be down for that being a thing in a new X game. Are you thinking like being able to mix-match different armor parts though? Or are you thinking more like you can just use whatever parts of that specific armor that you have at the time when you choose to equip it with no mix-matching?
Also the X5 enigma cannon / rocket launch timer thing feels like something that could use some revamping in some way. Don't know what you'd do with it, but always felt a bit awkward to me.
Mix and matching would be fine. You could mix and match with the X4 armor too in X5. And as always, options are good. A toggle for classic mode with the armors is fine too.
DeleteNow, taking X7 into account, I'd leave the story as is since I don't want to break canon but the entire game needs to be rebuilt in 2d.
X8 I would add story for navigator play through's and I would change Dynasty completely. I might add an additional end stage or two. And maybe a touch of story for Signas.
Anonymous June 13, 2024 at 9:00 AM
DeleteDepending on how its done, and depending on the game, you could do what they did in Powered Up and make the Irregulars recruit-able.
Ok so let's say you can mix any 2 powers like in Kirby 64:
DeleteWhat powers would you pick? I'd wanna try homing missile + shotgun ice, or fire tornado.
Oh, and I'd give X8 the otiginal character art designs so its not out of line anymore.
DeleteI'll be honest: outside of X1 and bosses I dont use the weapons. So I am drawing a total blank.
Same, which is too bad. It's fun to see how pros use them in each stage.
DeleteI have thought about how cool it could be, though, to charge two weapons at once and combine them with X3's cross-charged shot. Off the top of my head, It would be cool to see the effect of combining a charged Storm Tornado with a charged Triad Thunder. Or to keep it in the same game, Blizzard Buffalo + Neon Tiger = rain of ice missiles.
And even some voices for X5 for boss attacks or character movements, like we hear in X4 and X6 (X5 beta did have some voices like that for Sigma in the intro stage when he opens his mouth for the viral beam attack, and X and Zero grunts). And yes, cutscenes too for X5 and X6, like X4 does (not static text scenes), but better detail (the detail of the cutscene at the opening of X6 when the song plays is good).
DeleteAs long as any additions don't break canon, I'm mostly OK with it. Like, Irregular Hunter X could be considered canon, if not for Dr. Kain. So I wouldn't kill him off. I would add some bonus scene that shows he survived or rescued.
DeleteBut if I had to be brutally honest, I am very concerned about reboots. I'd rather studios would just leave all legacy titles alone at this point. For every thing they fix they seem to break something.
I think there are too many reboots and prequels these days. I want sequels (MM12, X9, ZX3, Legends 3, please).
DeleteOn a side note, I like this bad ass video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjTYbfsFhcs
Delete@shrap I can understand that, but an X series reboot remains #1 on my wishlist. It's my favorite series, and yet there's so much about it I'd like to see improved or changed. Ideally I'd like to see it done in such a way that it uses what each of the original games brought to the canon, but fleshes it out more. I agree with you that there's no need for Dr. Cain, the only on-screen human, to have died in MHX; however, on the other hand, I'm not at all invested in the Elf War period or leading into the Zero series*. I'm just not that into it or ZX. I do love Legends, but as it stands, I don't care that much about it being the end of the timeline from Classic onwards.
Delete*I think I would've been happy with an X6-X8 where X went (mostly) solo and got better with Zero's Z-Saber.
@Gary Daniel I'll take both. I'm sure X9 could be awesome. Good stuff from ultimatemaverickx too; here's something else I found in the related videos: https://youtu.be/uYIv1uaiTyk?si=SVd_iJSHbNvay9yC - I love the custom saber sprites and other stuff they made for X.
I just saw yours. Vile was dead meat there flying across the room and did not last long. This is good too with good music (the battle starts after the scene): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esG8pVsp3Xw
DeleteI also liked this video the year MM11 came out (nice dynamic music in the video and a tribute to MM11): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7n-zK4xLT8
DeleteWhat an awesome tribute. That really gets me in the mood for a MM marathon 👍
DeleteI really liked that UMX went back and remastered his big fight animations. It's just a legendary distillation of all those old Newgrounds sprite flash animations I used to watch. On that note, I think you'll enjoy this one too. Arbeen decided to redub the animation with all Japanese voices and absolutely nailed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACifDJxZX9I
Also have to give props to this one. You think it's just another sprite animation take on UMX's original, but then you get to the halfway point and they turn it into an actual anime: https://youtu.be/I-Nua_HqF44?si=DkVlVIKxECLzrofd
DeleteOn a sidenote, as much as I enjoyed (at first) seeing X finally get his debut in MvCI, one of things I really didn't like about how they did it was X's nasally-sounding voice lines. I don't know if the voice director just saw X as Zero's nerdy kid brother or something, and I think we could use a new VA for X in general, but I would've taken Gatha's performance instead. Also X suffered from the same deadface as most everyone else in that game, but most people just focused on Chun-Li and Dante's arguably worse expressions.
Please, no more remakes. Enough gaming companies are constantly doing remakes. A new game would be much more preferred.
DeleteI don't think remakes are any worse than sequels, and I understand the fatigue of seeing both in the industry. I'm open to either as long as it's really good and hopefully made to succeed financially.
DeleteI think that's a rip off cos dino crises wots massive for a come back it was all a cone
ReplyDeleteX beating Zero in a popularity contest? Guess Inafune is gonna cry like an anime fan on prom night. My boy X finally get some respect.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait for Legends 3. The longest waited (yet now cancelled) one. 😭
ReplyDeleteHonestly they have no excuse not to make a Legends 3 at this point for the current systems.
DeleteAwwwww... 😟 I known...
DeleteMega man legends remake and or a 3rd incorporating 1&2 into it that's all I want from Capcom DD2 I passed over no brainer🤣✌️and fun devil may cry🤮
ReplyDeleteOpen world Mega Man Legends digger game, lets gooo~!
DeleteLegends would be perfect for a open world.
DeleteA remake of Mega Man one, two and three? It could be good if done right, but I know lots don't really want a remake of those games; I'm a bit in the middle. If the game is gettin' updated graphics, especially Mega Man 11 style, that'd be really cool to see, especially the weapons (though I will forever live the 8-bit graphics). And maybe, some of the worst weapons could get better like the Bubble Lead and Atomic Fire for example (though lets be honest, almost every weapon in Mega Man 2 need to be fixed and actually be useful so that the Metal Blades aren't so broken, it's why I never use them).
ReplyDeleteAt the same time though... I'd much rather have a Mega Man 12 instead of remakes of the Classic Games, especially with how Mega Man 11 ended, since Wily got away, and how he said that he wouldn't stop till he sees both Dr. Light and Mega Man kneelin' before him in defeat
The first 3 games don't need remakes, they have been re released to death at this point. Hopefully we get a new game and not remakes.
DeleteGlad to see Megaman is still high up in there. Wouldn't mind if we got some new Ace Attorney too.
ReplyDeleteThe following has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but screw it:
ReplyDeleteI have always been suspicious of the Japanese title of 8: "Metal Heroes". When you combine that with the way Blues, Forte and Duo are aligned in the end of the opening, it makes me wonder if the game was originally supposed to be much bigger than ended up being with all of them being playable. That goes without mentioning the arcade games before it.
In "Rockman 2; The Power Fighters" Duo is made out to be a big deal "The mysterious new character 'Duo'"(granted that's the official English translation, but still), "He does not seem to be an enemy, but who is he?". By the end of 8, not much is learned about Duo(he is an extremely powerful good robot that came from outer space possibly from an advanced civilization on another planet or that could be a red herring and he is a relic from an ancient civilization on Earth however he lives in a different planet which could involve or not time travel shenanigans) and his introduction ended up creating a multitude of questions (who made him? For what purpose? For how long has he been fighting the evil robot? Has he been to any planets before apart from his home planet and how many? How powerful is he? Does he know who made the evil robot? He seems good so far, but does he have a bigger objective?) that have never been answered. His and the evil robot existence alone overcomplicates things to the next level. 9, 10 and now 11 completely ignore him for no reason and before anyone mentions it, no, I don't think the inclusion in the arcade game was to simply advertise 8 nor that he was a one and done deal. Also, keep in mind that while "The Power Fighters" released first, chronologically story wise it happens after 8.
Once you accept that the original plot for 9 and possibly 10 were abandoned the puzzle pieces start to fit.
I haven't played the Mega Man World games yet, but the last two (or just the last one) featured Star Droids, which were supposed to be from outer space, but then it's revealed later that Wily built them. Is that right? Then there's Ra Moon from Super Adventure Rockman, which Wily discovered in a South American/jungle pyramid. Clearly they toyed around with space lore and adventures, but never focused on it in the final games. I wonder why they never went all in on it.
DeleteIt's from 5, the Japanese or original names for them are Space Rulers. I'm not writing that to try to make you an example or anything since I don't remember their names much myself, they don't come up much in the franchise and you haven't played the game yet so I don't blame you. I haven't played the game in a while so I'll quote the Miraheze wiki: "The Space Rulers is a series of robots from an ancient alien civilization that Dr. Wily found in some unnamed ruins. Dr. Wily reprogrammed them to use the robots in an attempt to conquer the world" which lines up with what I remember. And yeah, Ra Moon is an ancient alien super computer which crashed on Earth 20,000 years prior to the events of Super Adventure Rockman.
DeleteOh nice, no problem. I appreciate the info. Seems like Mega Man could go the Star Trek route a little bit more than it has already. Star Force's EM Beings are from space as well, right? Next I'd wanna see the X series go further into space than Earth's orbit.
DeleteI was watching Starblazers not too long ago and was thinking about how humanity went underground after the attack by the Gamelas (was it the Gamelas? I only watched two eps of the new series). First thing I thought of was the X series and everyone going underground after the pollution from the fall of Eurasia. I hope I got the deets right, but either way I like what Anon at 1:51pm was saying. Mostly, at least. I'm not sure I'm on board with a Vulcan equivalent.
DeleteAlso since Sigma "died" in space, well, that certainly helps.
Delete2099 was real good. I didnt like 2199 as much. Not very excited for the new one, either.
DeleteIf I got that right.
Oh, you like it too? I watched an ep of the old one as well. Dub, because I'm a goober.
DeleteI never saw the original. I was interested in 2099 because of Super Robot Wars. And I really liked it. But I did not like the sequel's story very much. Yamato's story made Super Robot Wars V pretty fun.
DeleteOh, ok. I heard mixed reviews of 2199 so that doesn't surprise me tbh.
DeleteCapcom can always remake its old arcade games.
ReplyDeleteOr we could get new games?
DeleteI want new games too, I'm just saying in case Capcom wants to remake something and doesn't feel like making a new game.
DeleteTo clarify(I'm the last commenter) when I wrote "too", I meant I definitely don't want remakes. I kind of grew to hate them(remasters, remakes, reboots) and see them as cheap cash grabs. That comment was more like for them to not touch the franchise's games again and would rather they remake something unexpected like their old arcade games.
DeleteLove to see X high in the charts!
ReplyDeleteGood, I hope something comes out of this.
ReplyDeleteMe over here waiting 6+ years for ANYTHING new mega man. No merch, no re-releases. NEW content. It's frustrating........
ReplyDeleteMaybe focus on other things?
DeleteMaybe let people wait?
DeleteBig X series fan here. X8 came out in 2004. That makes it twenty years now we’ve all been waiting for X9. Waiting is all we’ve BEEN doing. Are you suggesting we’re just impatient? Must we wait until the end of our natural life spans before passerby trolls stop telling us to wait?
DeleteMaybe not argue in defense of entitlement issues?
DeleteLoathe as I am to defend anything Capcom, there were re-releases and merch within 6 years. But that's all and I get it.
DeleteLook at it this way: If they are doing nothing they aren't screwing it up. Feel better?
Maybe not argue
DeleteSaying it has been a long time and expressing it has been frustrating waiting for that length of time is not “entitlement.” Please re-read before engaging in reactive comment posting.
DeleteIt is entitlement if you spend the majority of that 6 years going "why hasn't Capcom given us a game yet!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?" every single article.
DeleteGreahead has every right to complain. And because people buy it, it is not entitlement. Waiting too long means many will die before playing future games, if they come out (ideally we have anti-aging gene editing in our life time though, but still). Sometimes it does feel good to rant about the lack of progress. Oddly enough, Dragon ball is suffering a reduction in its content too with its anime (super ended in 2018 and the last game we got of MM was also in 2018, and Toriyama dying reduced it further (I rather Dragon Ball Super anime returned vs Daima, but enjoy some youtube vids of some fan made manga of it). I liked it better when we got a new game or two from multiple series once ever 1.5. I will take over-saturation over under-saturation any day, and with the timeline length of the series, many games in between ZX and Legends could even fit, as if they purposely made a huge time gap just in case to make room for many new games in between.
Delete@Anonymous June 17, 2024 at 11:00 PM
DeleteWhy are you assuming that's what he did for 6 years? What is wrong with you?
One thing I didn't like about 9-11 is how the character designs for Rock and Roll went backwards(it isn't just the overall character design in 8 where everyone looks taller, they are meant to look older). People joke about Roll's Rockman & Forte CD description: "Recently, she has become more mature." while simultaneously missing the point that Dr. Right designed them to age unlike other robots pointing to his genius. It doesn't make sense that Right is visibly older in 11, but Rock and Roll look younger.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's a canon inconsistency? That's interesting, though, that they age without needing new bodies. Unless I'm wrong and it works the same way it did in the Rockman-san manga. I'm not particularly interested in it, but someone said Dr. Light made new bodies over a period of time to simulate aging.
DeleteI agree with you there Anon, I preferred the taller 6-8, MM & Bass art style myself. The new games are still good but I liked the more mature look for the characters.
DeleteIf something had to be redone, it would have to be X4 and onwards. Considering X4 is Zero's game, the timeline split should have happened there with X4 being Zero 1, X5 being Zero 2 and prototype Zero 1 being Zero 3. Make proper X4-X6 storylines that focus on X. In the Japanese version of X3 the ending states: "And he didn't know now that his memories, which would one day be remembered, would doom him to a battle with Zero..." yet that never happened in X5. That's the nature of having some things planned out(like X and Zero's backstories being written between 5 and X1's development in 1993) and others(Dr. Cain just disappears) not so much as well as the insistence of having Zero as the protagonist.
ReplyDeleteWhile the story in X4 makes sense, X's ending comes from nowhere. He experienced Sigma's plan of framing Repliforce and instead of vowing to talk things out as opposed to fighting and acting out of pride just in case he wrongly gets labeled an Irregular, he tells Zero to destroy him. lolwut?
DeleteIt's because X has no depth. Things happen around X. But nothing happens that changes X's character at all. So they have to shoehorn it in. Seriously. Between X1 and X8 absolutely nothing changes with X. Even in the Zero Series, he is still the "I don't wanna fight" character. That's it. That's why people generally like Zero more than X. His character is actually interesting.
DeleteYeah, that's a good observation. X seemed to take the wrong lesson from the ordeal. Instead, he probably should have started questioning his role as a Maverick Hunter instead of waiting until X8 and the arrival of next-gen Reploids. It would've been even more interesting had Sigma not been involved, putting the focus more on the issue of Reploid independence vs. being labeled a Maverick.
Delete@Anonymous June 17, 2024 at 7:39 PM
That's the first time I see that translation. So does that mean X fought Zero & knew about his origins sometime before the events of X1, but his memories were sealed away? If so, then that seems like all the more reason to invest time and effort into a series remake, to incorporate more of these unknown story threads.
@shrap On the flipside, Zero's character has already been explored pretty fully. He pretty much took over X's series, then got his own series which was arguably higher quality than X's, returns with X again in ZX, and enjoyed high-profile cameos like in MvC. After all that, Zero fans have eaten good & X fans are hungry. It's X's lack of characterization and polish that is a big reason why I'm more interested in him: his character hasn't been well explored or developed yet. That's something that a series remake would be ideal for. I want to see him get a makeover. I'd rather not see his "I don't wanna fight" character end the way it did in the Zero series. I think things could have gone another way, something more interesting.
DeleteI think we just need a new game at this point, not remakes.
Delete@AnonymousJune 18, 2024 at 11:16 AM
DeleteIt says a lot that after 31 years, X has not been explored or developed, at all. I hope you get the character development you crave. I wouldn't put money on it.
Even Ryu of Street Fighter has had next to no character development. Capcom has no problems milking that gravy train.
Same here. For all the talk of X's endless potential, and Sigma mentioning it himself several times, idk if it's really explored in the main series rather than manga, which has its own problems.
DeleteI look forward to a change. Not in the short term, but when I least expect it. Mega Man needs another Inafune-level producer to lead and champion him in the company. If or when that person shows up, who knows what they might have in store. It doesn't even have to just be Mega Man, maybe they'll champion other beloved and neglected franchises too.
DeleteDevelopment or not, Id like to see someone with a cool, exciting vision for X that isn't "hey wouldn't it be cool if he turned evil?" That might be a cool twist, but it wouldn't be worth it if I can't enjoy playing as or seeing X as a hero from that point forward. Besides, id *really* like to see x-kai or iX featured in the canon. Zero got a cool doppelganger boss, so in a hypothetical new X series or sequel, a dark reflection of X would be a great opportunity for character development.
X has NO character development in ANY of the games? Man, media literacy really is in the toilet nowadays…
Delete@AnonymousJune 18, 2024 at 6:34 PM
DeleteGo ahead and provide examples. I'll wait.
I'll save you the trouble:
In X1 he felt guilt for the creation of the mavericks... lamented fighting and didnt want to do so. And wanted to stop the fighting.
In X2... ditto.
In X3... ditto.
...
...
...
In X7 he stopped fighting for a minute, because of ditto, to pick up right where he left off at ditto.
In X8 right back to ditto.
Don't confuse plot with character development. He has had no new relationships beyond fellow hunters/coworkers since X1, the only exception being Zero IN X1. His relationship with Dr. Light is never explored beyond "you made me and here is a new toy'. And thats even if he knows that much, as its implied his memory is screwy.
His conflict with Zero has no lasting impact on his psyche. At all. It completely resets. You can say he experienced loss, temporarily, but it didnt change anything. Nothing any of the villains do has jaded him any more than Sigma's X1 betrayal.
He is no different in X8 than when he debuted in X1. Therefore: no character evolution since X1.
Yeah, I don’t know how anyone can say X has no character development when the whole point of X1 is HOW he turns into the would-be pacifist in the first place. He feels guilty for the Maverick uprising by virtue of his own existence so he throws himself into the fight. By the end he has a minutes long mental reflection of his role in committing violence and its permanence and how he has to press on regardless. There is melancholic music playing to set the mood so you don’t mistake it for a “mission accomplished we killed everyone hurray” moment. It’s not overly complex or anything but it’s solid storytelling. His character transformation is so apparent and obvious you get smacked in the face with it.
DeleteAnd this is just the story of FIRST game.
I’d like to point out that Zero isn’t a well written character until MMZ. The X series has NO meaningful character development regarding Zero. He has one entire instance of development and that is when he kills Iris. At which point he turns into sad Zero. And THAT’S IT.
DeleteBeyond that his character does not change or grow within the X series. Good stories are character driven and all the writers add to Zero’s “story” are plot expansions. Dr. Wily being his creator. Maybe he killed Mega Man and the original crew. Him originally being the origin of the virus. All of it is external filler plot. He never finds out the truth about Wily or even confronts the fact that he was built by him. That Wily was at odds with Light and that Light was the creator of X. He never discovers who Dr. Wily even is. He never has to internalize what any of that means or why it matters to him. He doesn’t have to reflect on his friendship with X because of it. There is nothing compelling for the player to grab onto narratively. It's all shallow and superficial.
X has way more going on with just his “I don’t want to fight, there must be another way” schtick.
@AnonymousJune 18, 2024 at 9:54 PM
DeleteThat is incorrect. He was a pacifist when the game started. He was a pacifist when it ended. He didnt grow or change at all.
And he did the same exact thing in multiple games, even. Wow what growth that was.
I find it completely disingenuous to claim X has no complexity as a fictional character but somehow his story was adapted into a novel. Must be a lot of character NON-development in there amirite?
DeleteQuick someone tell Capcom so they can recall the book!!!
No, shrap is right. X does not grow at all past X1, that's the point. He grew over the course of X1, and that's it. His character never changed or progressed since. It was just one conflict after another that wore him down until he decided to "quit" off-screen in the Zero series lore (that is, he sacrificed his body to seal the Dark Elf, which seems to re-contextualize his speech at the end of Z1).
DeleteAny challenges to his character came from outright villains who either wanted to genocide humanity or who just wanted to fight him specifically. The answer would always be to stop them by killing them, regardless of how X felt about it. The only time he decided to do something other than fighting was in the bad ending of X5 where he decides to build Elysium, and X7 when he decides to take a desk job at Maverick Hunter HQ.
Compared to Zero, his attitude takes a sharp turn from X4 to X5 after killing Iris. He goes from "yeah! kill those Mavericks, that's our job!" to "yeah... it's our job". But he believes in X being able to make a better future... somehow. And if X isn't there, he'll find someone else to believe in and fight for. He never questions that fighting and killing is what he does. X is closer to questioning that for himself, but only decides to stop as a brief contrivance to make way for Axl.
@AnonymousJune 18, 2024 at 10:41 PM
DeleteI find it disingenuous how your using the novel as an argument against a point about the game. That's funny.
@June 18, 2024 at 10:41 PM If X is anything like he is in the manga, he's a golden child who everyone is jealous of in the novel and a massive crybaby. From what I heard, Sigma is jealous of X for being a copy of him, and Zero punches him in the face because he can't cry like X can. That's lame, imo.
DeleteThe novel is based on the story of the game. Point is valid cause the two are related. The novel is an expansion of the narrative.
DeleteNice not-rebuttal, shrap.
Also shrap: “he’s a pacifist the whole time” *plays games where X kills a bunch of enemies on screen* Pick a lane.
@anon 8:01am:
“Sharp is right, X never changes past X1”
*types out example of how X changes.*
Also pick a lane. Also shrap’s point is that X never changes in ANY of the games. X’s growth in X1 was explained by another anon.
I like how one anon just described the story of X1 verbatim and shrap was like “that is incorrect.” Amazing. I thought the media literacy comment was a just a drive by insult but they were right lol
DeleteThe novel argument is not valid. You shouldn't, if your wise, use a book to retroactively change story elements of the game that came out 24 years earlier and say "See!? There be character there re-contextualized by this book!" If you are, your acknowledging that the game failed to make those points that it required the novel to do so. Think about that a minute.
DeleteAs far as picking a lane, I don't think you understand what I even said because your too busy playing the literal game for a gotcha moment. X did not want to fight when the war started. He reluctantly did so (he was a pacifist). When he finally caved, out of guilt, he was a rank B due to not wanting to fight. At the end, he lamented his fighting which goes against his pacifist nature. If you call that growth, it's barely any at all. And what's more even THAT development happened all off screen, as he was fighting in frame 1 and all his internal conflict that powers that detail occurred before the game even starts.
So, there you go. His entire arc is I don't wanna fight -> I will fight -> I regret fighting -> repeat. That's it. 11 times if you include the spinoffs. He didn't even have any plot in Command Mission, an RPG that would have been the ideal place to generate it. Coming back full circle: It's because X has no depth. His character is so incredibly basic.
Now, arguing with you further is fruitless. So have fun.
It can be based on the game without being canon.
DeleteIMO portraying Sigma as jealous of X due to being a copy in non-canon materials does a disservice to his motives. He's darwinistic, but not super-duper insecure. He refers to the copies in x8 as his children, and I feel like he wouldn't do that if he was motivated by "boohoo I'm just a copy!"
Delete*any plot that builds his character in Command Misson
Delete@Anon 10:03am Who "typed out examples of how X changed"? I didn't.
DeleteAgain, I'd say shrap is right about X1 (the game) as well: X doesn't actually change in the first game either. Rather, his character is established as a rookie hunter who is weaker than Zero, but has great potential to be more human-like and grow stronger, which he did. That's growth, but not necessarily the character development we're talking about. It's more implied by the journey of playing the game and accented during a select few cutscenes.
Whether or not he's more human or capable of real choices also isn't explored at all, which I will give the manga and novel credit for w/o any comment as to how well they do or if I like them. The only impact that has in the games is as backstory for Reploids in general.
It was only during the ending scroll in X1 that we got the hint that X may not be happy about what he achieved through fighting. Once that die was cast, nothing changed it except for the meta reason of making room for Axl in X7, and later as end-of-game exposition in Z1. He always hated and regretted fighting, but he always believed he had a responsibility to keep fighting for peace. You can read whatever you want into that or be satisfied with it, but I think it'd be nice if future games and their plots did more with X, and I respect MHX for getting that ball rolling.
Anon@10:10pm makes a good observation that Zero too is also pretty shallow as a character, despite his character having been explored more than X's. But that "more" is super prominent in the anime-cutscene plot of X4, coinciding with his formal intro as a playable character & the series jump to CD-rom. I can't fault Inafune or his team that much given how loved and memorable X4 is as a game, but it's still weird that X got relatively sidelined like that. I think playing as him wasn't as fun as it was on the SNES either, but that's another conversation.
I don’t think Shrap understood the point being made is that X1 has enough narrative value to be expanded into a novel. Not that the novel is canon or needs to be canon or “fix” the story. Just that story can be elaborated on in general cause it is a decent story.
DeleteX1 is a product of its time. It’s a 16 bit SNES game. You had to read the manual to get the narrative premise of the game. You play the game. Beat the game, get the ending.
Robot is unearthed. Robot fights for the greater good. Robot realizes the high cost of fighting even if for the greater good. Simple but solid.
@anon 1:48pm
Delete“X doesn’t actually change in the first game… it’s more implied by the journey of playing the game and accented during a select few cutscenes “
What is going here? How am I supposed to be a proponent of X having character growth if you’re just going to take both sides.
X doesn't need no stinking character development because he was born in his world!
Delete@Anon 3:54pm
DeleteX started the game fighting and ended the game fighting. He grew stronger as a Maverick Hunter. You could imply the ordeal helped him grow as a person, but he didn't change from a non-pacifist to a pacifist or vice versa. I think the only thing we got from the manuals was that X felt guilty for the Maverick violence because they were based on his design, and felt a duty to try and stop them. I'm pretty sure his feelings didn't change after defeating Sigma, except for the narration implying he also regretted having to fight and kill Mavericks.
This is not a bad start for X's character, but it is basic and never expanded on or explored after this point.
"I don’t think Shrap understood the point being made is that X1 has enough narrative value to be expanded into a novel. Not that the novel is canon or needs to be canon or “fix” the story. Just that story can be elaborated on in general cause it is a decent story. "
DeleteOkay, if that's the claim, then I've got no real problem with that. I get a bit twitchy because some people are -really- into the manga and claim things are 100 percent canon because of stuff that didn't happen outside of it or the novel.
OP here, only the first two comments of this chain were mine.
DeleteApart from what I wrote, I wanted to point out the differences in X and Zero's routes:
-X asks Colonel if the Repliforce was occupying Sky Lagoon while Zero asks him if his unit attacked the place which is a more serious accusation. Zero unintentionally ends up provoking him a bit more and also proceeds with telling him they are suspect of being Irregulars.
-In X's route, Dragoon always wanted to just fight X and reveals he destroyed Sky Lagoon. In Zero's route, he wanted to win against Zero and craved power in exchange for infiltrating the Irregular Hunters without revealing he destroyed Sky Lagoon.
-In X's route, Sigma reveals his plan to X including the fact that Double was a spy. In Zero's route, Sigma reminds Zero of his past, taunting him.
The novel "Irregulars Report" being canon is probably not true, but can contain canon elements that were implied in the game like the Energen crystals. Unless Capcom states which is the definitive canon story, it is impossible to figure it out, but it is also not too bad to assume the original game is the canon one. For example: Dr. Cain finds X when he's young in the novel yet in Irregular Hunter X he's already old(you can see his long beard). To be fair to IHX, it does say in the opening that it is based on "Rockman X" making it an adaptation so who knows. Did you know Alia is one of the navigators that guides X in the novel?
Regarding the manga, I never read it unlike the novel because while the manga was a mere adaptation with its number of changes, I read somewhere that the novel was supervised by Capcom of Japan officials. I'm not really sure, I just never cared for the mangas since they all seem to be adaptations unless Capcom states otherwise.
@Chad
DeleteYou mean "into his world".
The only thing I don't like about the manga and the novel (haven't read the novel) is that both insist on highlighting X crying. I get it if they wanted to just highlight how X can feel emotions like a human, but having it be the first thing you see wasn't a great way to demonstrate it. That's something I have to commend MHX for not doing. Plus, it's not very convincing when you have Zero crying out Iris's name in X4. So what actually makes X different or special?
DeleteWell I do notice X, though he often doesn't change much in some ways, does grow more powerful, seems a bit wiser and less naive and more independent especially later in the series (in X7, he does seem wiser vs early X games in the cutscenes, though silly they put the 'stop it' when you fire your weapon), and he feels less empathy about retiring mavericks beyond X7, especially in his Zero series form being all sage like and in elf form. I don't know if saying 'zero' growth is accurate. But yes, he in many ways seems the same. Also some areas of growth 'like power' do in fact increase. Also the voice actors changing in the English version can give the feel he is more mature later on (art style got more mature too in the 2nd half of the X series). But even Zero seems the same in some ways and doesn't usually hesitate to terminate an enemy. They both stay similar, yet change over time to a degree.
DeleteI do remember one line from X in an early trailer from X where he said, "Mavericks are pure evil, they must be stopped!" or something to that effect. That kinda struck me, it was weird to hear him say that. Like, after all this time, things are still that black-and-white to you? Geez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49zLk8BFBkM&pp=ygUTbWVnYSBtYW4geDggdHJhaWxlcg%3D%3D
DeleteJust seems like marketing fluff. There’s no voiceover and every line of story dialogue is voiced in X8. He definitely never says that in game.
DeleteSaying mavericks are pure evil does sound extreme or a generalization. I do remember that trailer before X8 came out saying that. Of course it was shown that beyond X8, he does lose empathy compared to his earlier days. Even the Zero ending in X7 of Zero dreaming about X showing his empathy reducing, then in Z1's ending, cyber elf X said over time, he no longer cared after retiring an uncountable number of mavericks. Still seems to have empathy in Z1 though, but not as soft as his X series days.
Delete100 years of endless fighting would probably reduce even the best Reploid/Maverick Hunter to indifference. It still sucks to see, though, especially after the fact and off-screen to someone who was so inspiring and fun to play as. It's partly why I don't have any investment in the Zero series or beyond when it comes to canon, despite it arguably being the best written. As it stands, canon has always been secondary to the action in Mega Man, unless you're talking Battle Network or Legends, I guess. Like X's (or Zero's) character, it's always been pretty shallow and surface-level, so it wouldn't take much digging and fleshing out to grab my interest.
DeleteOne of my favorite things about X6 and the PlayStation trilogy is the unlockable cutscene with Alia, after you get 3000 Nightmare Souls. That's nothing but a static "cutscene", but rather than just a passing comment from Alia after clearing a stage, the game stops and just gives her and X a moment alone together to talk about what's happening. I thought it was brilliant and so unexpected, and the game accented it perfectly with the otherwise unused ALIA & GATE track: https://youtu.be/UdqDtrRdA-E?si=UFqX38ZLGRvSKb-P
Regardless of X6's design and difficulty being so off-putting, I think it's probably my favorite plot of any of the PlayStation games, at least until they just brought Sigma back. I love Sigma, but he didn't need to be in every game, and especially not at the last minute like that.
X wasn’t “losing” empathy. He fights the good fight for a long time. His Z1 ending dialogue implies (as translated into English anyway) that after 100 years of fighting alone he no longer felt ANYTHING.” The whole binary “mavericks are pure evil” shtick is more something Copy-X would say (or maybe he has said something to this effect in Z1 or Z3 lol).
Delete@Gary
DeleteZero’s dream is a surreal and fearful interpretation of X’s reaction to his “true nature.” Zero doesn’t remember his past so he doesn’t understand the dream completely.
It is not a dream about X “losing” empathy. He never questions X’s character. Zero believes so strongly in X and his ideals he carries those beliefs into battle (he takes up the battle at the end of Z1, and he echoes the sentiment regarding his belief in his friends to a bunch of characters in Z4).
The fact that 3 Mega Man characters made it to the top 10 to me is impressive.
ReplyDeleteShrap is definitely wrong about X having no character growth. It’s clear he’s much more confident about his role as a hunter in the second half of the series. At the end of X6 he straight up tells Sigma that he needs to work towards Earth's restoration (post-X5) and that he’ll smoke Sigma every time he comes back if he has to. Not to mention in X8 he is way less wish-washy about fighting after his brief retirement in X7. For example, in a conversation Axl says something about wanting to hunt down mavericks and having an itchy trigger finger and is scolded by Alia for it. X interjects and agrees with Axl that they don’t have time to stand around they need to get the job done or something to that effect.
ReplyDeleteThey actually double back to X growing into a confident hunter in Maverick Hunter X (effectly retconning the problem shrap thinks he has). He starts the game as we know him: unsure of himself and being a worrywart, which they show leads to hesitation regarding his actions as a hunter. But by the end of the game he does not hesitate to smoke Sigma in the final encounter (Sigma verbally confirms X has changed during this encounter).
I remember that line in X8 and thought the same. It was nice, it just wasn't much of anything I didn't know already. You already pointed out how it was refreshing after what we got in X7, so it comes around back to the status quo with his character: nothing new, nothing different. Same admirable but unexplored determination. What MHX did was demonstrate, albeit briefly, that X had a relationship and history with each of the Mavericks, and further dramatized his opposition to Sigma. That's all good stuff, but it only reiterated what we knew or could easily imply from X1. It could've been the start of having an X series more focused and interested in X than before, but we may never know what Inafune and co had in store.
DeleteThe claim being argued here is whether X has character growth at all so I used MHX as the main example. X becoming more confident can be inferred from the original X1 (and further down the line in the main series) and that growth is condensed into one story (MHX). That is my point. That X has a meaningful character change by the end of the story and it is noticeable. The expanded characterization of the mavericks and the increased dramatization in MHX is all window dressing. It’s just additional narrative context. The real goal of any story is to show the main character come out the other end as a different person then when they started.
DeleteIn MHX it is clear as day. At the beginning he is uncertain of himself and hesitates to act when necessary but he eventually grows into a confident hunter and becomes more decisive which leads him to victory over Sigma.
How is that not clearly defined character growth?
I'm not saying it isn't clearly defined character growth. What I am saying is that it's nothing new or different from the original MMX, let alone the entire X franchise that preceded MHX. It did start to do what I wanted to see in a remake of the series, but too bad it ended there.
DeleteThis is the very last X game we got. So when you use it as the primary example you're using to say, "Hey, you're wrong. X does have character development/growth, here it is ", all I can say is, "You're not refuting my point that X has no significant character development after X1."
And that's not even my main problem with X, or the X series. I think both need more work to be interesting, cool and exciting, and the plot and character development are only pieces of the puzzle. The rest is just solid game design that captures what made the games fun and memorable, and expanded on those elements. Maybe taking pages from Zero, ZX or Corrupted if or when appropriate, but I want the focus to be on X and what makes playing as him fun: finding armor parts (preferably for one really good armor), ride armors & vehicles, charged buster shots (preferably the double and/or cross shot), dashing & air-dashing, and whatever new abilities or cool weapons the team can come up with.
Oh, and X seems to get more assertive, capable, and confident over time, I notice, compared to X1.
DeleteAt the beginning of X2, he's pretty much the leader of the Maverick Hunters. It was his call to take on the X-Hunters to get Zero's parts back. His actions and his stature demonstrated those qualities even as early as X1, when he was weakest. The only significant deviation from this was X7, which he recovered from quickly in X8. I think X7 just made X8 look better than it was in every way, including X's portrayal.
DeleteWhoops, I meant to put that response after the one I just made in the next thread above talking about X's growth (meant to be two back to back posts after I thought of that additional stuff).
Delete@shrap
ReplyDeleteA pacifist is someone who believes war and justice is unjustifiable. X fights all the time. As you say: “he is reluctant to do so” but he does anyway. X is literally NOT a pacifist.
So yes, it is fruitless to continue as your opinions are false on the merit since you do not understand the meaning of terms you are using.
*war and violence, not "war and justice" if you're using the google definition.
DeleteThough, you can be a pacifist and still fight in violent wars. You can still do actions that go against your beliefs especially if you haven't sorted out a reasonable alternative path to take. ...not sure it's fair to say he doesn't understand the terms.
I did mean to say “war and violence.” And you’re right. Maybe it was a little mean spirited to say that. So you know what, I’m sorry for that. Maybe I got riled up a little lol
DeleteI’m sure anon (June 19th, 2:05pm) meant to say “violence” not justice. But I’m inclined to agree with him. A true pacifist doesn’t participate in war. X would maybe like to be one (a pacifist) as I believe he venomously hates violence. But X participates in battle. Often. So I’d also be inclined to say he isn’t a pacifist as well.
DeletePacifism requires a rejection of violence. There’s no middle ground. It’s not a fluid principle. If X resorts to violence because there is “no reasonable alternative path” he simply is not a pacifist.
Delete@anon June 19th 10:02pm.
DeleteThat’s a bit extreme. Pacifism is a little fluid. While nonviolence is the general belief some pacifists do make exceptions in the case of emergencies (like if one has to defend themselves or others).
That being said, pacifism is usually defined by non-violent opposition and practice against military ideology and oppression. Considering that, I wouldn’t say X is a pacifist either as he is a LEADER in a military-like law enforcement organization (the Maverick Hunters).
I’d still say he is still an altruistic and good character but at the end of the day he’s still essentially a robot cop. In fact I’d go so far as to say his pacifist principles are tested in a social sense post-X4 cause he is definitely confronted via dialogue by Maverick bosses about how his organization resorts to violence FIRST rather than an alternative.
If X4 and X5 were more marketed to adults I feel they could have been more thematically interesting since both games have compelling and morally complicated story premises. But you know, gotta throw in that generic Sigma/Zero/Wily subplot. lol
Edit: meant to say war and violence* was unjustifiable
ReplyDeleteI love the conversation going on here so far. I'd be thrilled if Capcom were to release another poll like this, if they can't just surprise us with a new game yet.
ReplyDeleteSame. I think this conversation pretty much proves X isn’t a one-dimensional character. It’s why fans love him and want a new game starring him. Can’t imagine there’d be so many opinions on the topic if he was just an another static 2D platformer character.
DeleteI don't think being a one-dimensional (or a simple or basic) character precludes X from being lovable, or people wanting more games starring him. Mega Man X games defined the genre of fast-paced action shoot-em-up sidescrollers. But speaking to both your point and the opposing side, there is enough character* in X to represent limitless potential; in less flattering terms, he is almost a blank slate you could do nearly anything with. However you see it, I think most would agree that X's potential for being a deep, dynamic character hasn't been realized yet. There are still things we don't know about him: what's his relationship with Dr. Light, what happened to his mind during hibernation, what was he doing before he became a Maverick Hunter, what does he look like under the helmet, etc.
DeleteI feel like the gameplay can use further experimentation as well. Or at least a refocusing on X and enriching his play style with new abilities or things to do in- and out-of stages. I wouldn't want to exclude Zero completely, but I don't want another retread of his popularity tour, or to feel like he's overshadowing X again and bifurcating the game design.
*guilt over the Maverick crisis (and Sigma killing multitudes), regret over retiring Mavericks, nearly unshakeable sense of duty, justice and responsibility, etc.
“I think most would agree that X's potential for being a deep, dynamic character hasn't been realized yet.“
DeleteSure, agreed. A lot of the concepts and themes in the X series are partly inspired by more contemporary and complex sci-fi stories so the depth of story can be drawn out if they decide to do that and find a way to convey it without compromising gameplay.
I mean, it is the way it is because Mega Man started out like most video games in the late 80s/90s and were marketed to kids. So it makes sense. I’m more hopeful now since the age range of players varies a bit more now since all the older millennials have grown up. I mean judging from the survey results Capcom put out, a good chuck of the fans are in their 30-40s. So here’s hoping if they ever put out another X game it ages up a little bit.
Here's hoping. Like shrap pointed out earlier though, Ryu's character is also fairly shallow. The difference between him and X, though, is that Ryu has a cute budding martial artist girl who really wants him, and X has Alia. I don't think I need to elaborate on that point except to bring up Marty from the Rockman X manga.
DeleteSo it just seems to be a Capcom thing. These dev teams or producers care less about the story and the characters and more about the game. Or, they don't think these characters should be expanded on; better to just occasionally introduce more new characters. Pivoting over to a more story-and-character-focused genre, how much character does Ryu, a silent protagonist (except in Dragon Quarter), have in any given Breath of Fire game? Other than being a traditional heroic RPG underdog, I don't think there's ever been much there; he's the cool warrior guy who can turn into dragons. Though, from BoF 3 and on, they did a little more with him until finally giving him a voice and character in Dragon Quarter.
They should make mega man 12, i want to know what happened between that and mega man x.
ReplyDelete